Thanks for the reply Col,

I appreciate the time taken to dispel atheists having no value to religion or society.

I consider myself agnostic, some can say a fence sitter who needs proof of existence, this is not true in my case but may well be true in others.

I think because of the influences in social and political aspects everything now has a wider band with no scripted structure of belief, this alows for more opinion and expectation in all area's in our lives and thoughts.

What was once seen as the true way to lead a Christian life many centuries before has developed into a more accepting religion with a better understanding of other people and religions.

Unfortunatly religion has, is and will be used as a tool for conflict. The my God's bigger than your God and the use of a God's name to kill others has existed ever since man has worshiped, I hope soon conflict in the name of, will soon enough be a thing of the past and all can change to respect beliefs that endanger no one or nothing.

I see the term hell used as a point of discrimination and a political tool to cause people to join a religion through fear, to me it doesn't exist and therefore I do not have to live my life through fear of being cast out but rather I live by the complex set of values that are borrowed from many forms of beliefs and taught opinion I have had in my life. This itself would be blasphamy to many who follow certain religiouse creeds, I would simply be an infidal, and as I do not follow their beliefs I would stand no chance of obtaining entrance to their heaven.

To be asked if I had faith, I do have faith in mankind and people and this is tested on a daily basis, many have breached that faith and I have forgiven most for that. After all I'm not responsible for their actions they are, and in my way of thoughts we will all end up in the same place.

I become amused by those who claim to be of a specific domenation by baptism at birth but have little to no idea what their chosen faith is about, they claim to be a religion only when it suits their cause, they use this to try and control others and accuse them of sins committed that conflict with their suggested religion and beliefs.

I must say Colin yours is one of the most prominant conversations I have had as it accepts others and their beliefs with out yourself feeling threatend and your beliefs not needing pandering too.

With most if your suggestions do not coenside with their beliefs you become allien to them and this is one of the main reasons I tend to avoid discussions on religion.

I will read your response again and I thank you for your open mind and your effort to dispel athiests as something evil it really is well written.

D4E.

P.S. A life need many people to make it complete none are dispelled and some appreciated more than others, you are appreciated Col and with that comes the respect of you.

All the best D4E

Just so we don't get bogged down with words , and not enjoy life with oneanother........a Story , LUNCH WITH GOD !


A little boy wanted to meet God.
He knew it was a long trip to where God lived, so he packed his suitcase with Mars Bars and a six-pack of root beer and he started his journey. When he had gone about three blocks, he met an old woman.

She was sitting in the park just staring at some pigeons. The boy sat down next to her and opened his suitcase. He was about to take a drink from his root beer when he noticed that the old lady looked hungry, so he offered her a Mars Bar . She gratefully accepted it and smiled at him. Her smile was so pretty that the boy wanted to see it again, so...... he offered her a root beer.

Again, she smiled at him. The boy was delighted! They sat there all afternoon eating and smiling, but they never said a word. As it grew dark, the boy realized how tired he was and he got up to leave, but before he had gone more than a few steps, he turned around, ran back to the old woman, and gave her a hug. She gave him her biggest smile ever.

When the boy opened the door to his own house a short time later, his mother was surprised by the look of joy on his face. She asked him, "What did you do today that made you look so happy?"

He replied, "I had lunch with God." But before his mother could respond, he added, "You know what? She"s got the most beautiful smile I"ve ever seen!" Meanwhile, the old woman, also radiant with joy, returned to her home. Her son was stunned by the look of peace on her face and asked, "Mother, what did you do today that made you so happy?" She replied, "I ate Mars Bars in the park with God." However, before her son responded, she added, "You know, he"s much younger than I expected.!!!!"

Too often we underestimate the power of a touch,! ! a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.

Remember, we don"t know what God will look like. People come into our lives for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. Embrace all equally!


( Free advertising for Mars Bars...........Note to Company .Please send donation to DIDS !! )


If the Story isn't true it , ought to be.

And to you D4E, thank you for your encouraging kindness in words , it encourages my insides to smile. My best regards Mate , hope you're travelling well.

Colin

THERE IS SOMETHING UNUSUAL IN THIS THINKING !!
Yet it is a common concept.


This is so simple. It's been right under our noses all the time: a test for the existence of God.

I'm going to do this experiment, and I suggest that EVERYBODY do it, atheists, agnostics, Christians, Zoroastrians: Talk to God and tell him that if he can do anything - create the world in six days, kill his own son for the sins of the world, set the galaxies in motion - then surely he can appear in your living room for five minutes so that you can chat with him.

What a small thing for the God of the universe to do!!! Nothing is too hard for him (Jeremiah 32:27); with God all things are possible (Matt. 19:16). And we're not even asking him for a miracle. We just want him to spend five minutes with us IN PERSON. If he really loves us so much (John 3:16), he should be willing to spend some time with us.

Please try this in your own home, and let me know the results (I'm particularly interested in what he looks like - if he has an elephant's head, for instance, there are going to be lots of disillusioned Moslems).

SOUNDS ALMOST PLAUSABLE.............yet the thoughts are irrashional,..but why could this be so?

Helping to keep us thinking.

Please travel back to the beginning of the Topic "A Child's view" , there is always much to learn,...not only on this Topic Church , but under all headings on the Forum. It is a fantastic source of info. throughout. If you are here for the first time, chose a Forum Topic , and feel right at home to share. There are wonderful frienships to be made, as well as your sharing, just speak as if this were home to you , all or anything you need to speak out.

Take care folk,

Colin

Being a father that wants to be able to allow choice and experamentation in my daughters life, I will have a lot of lessons to learn as well as a fair amount of control and self control to live.

The lessons learned by the opinions and experiances of others are some of the best lessons in life to learn, until it comes to personal experiances which gives us hindsight but with the gift of hindsight it's important to not stiffle the growth of our children and be there to support them.

Just one of these subjects is religion, as was put to me in the not to distant past by someone who has my respect " You don't have to believe in god to have faith " and this is so true but we do need a basic understanding in several faiths to be able to support our children and help them realise thats it's not about hell and damnation.

Aussie asked a very relevant question not too far back, but it may well be between the unread lines that I see it.

When talking about God his name can be taken in vain and used against many religeous principals, over many years he has been used to scare the populouse into belief or eternal damnation, and his name can be used to inflict suffering onto children by parents who wish to alienate their own children against the other parent. And to be in Gods bad books is never good, many adults fear eternal damnation for their sins so imagine a young pliable mind that has an entity such as God used against them to creat guilt and fear.

Perhaps it's not about religion or science but how each is used to control belief and disbelief in others.

This is not said to discredit any beliefs or opinions nor is it said to implicate religions as readily abused, but when it's used as a tool it is being abused so then it becomes logical to do one of two things discredit or communicate an alternate way of explaining it, I still believe they can exist side by side and I still intend to attend Sunday School with my daughter, just so I know what she is being told and how best to help her understand and work out what faith is as well as science.

It's important that we don't lose " The Childs View " in all this, and you just struck a cord with your post Col.
Although I am comfortable in my knowladge my daughter is still learning and needs to experance many things to choose for herself.

But I don't want her brainwashed and closed to thoughts and ideas, I would like to think that she will be open and understanding towards others and allow people to believe without discriminating against them.

There are many people out there that will manipulate to control and this must be fought with other forms of education and unfortunatly like it or not subtle manipulation to help reverse some damage.

Although at this time this may seem like a discussion between two people many more will read and gain from it or I hope anyway because if it helps just one parent with explaining just one thing to their child it will allow another mind to question.

Peace to all