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Evil or Very Mad Hi Everybody, Anybody?
I did not have any fun today, not yet (how is that for trying to sound positive?).
Just received a letter (email) from my solicitor with attached letter from wife's solicitor, asking me to stop visiting wife who is ill in hospital and father in law who is frail and ailing in a supported accomodation institution.

About two weeks ago I heard through the grapevine that wife was ill in hospital and that she does not want me to know about it. (I am not sure how much to disclose or censor - possible legal implications?). I filed away the info with possible reference to a property settlement offer I made to my wife at the end of July.
At 6 am on a week ago, I received an SMS from wife informing me that she is in hospital for the third time in three weeks, doctors suspected... . This sounded possibly serious to me. [/b]I was hooked!. She added that she still didn't want to see nor speak to me.
I tried to be sensible and slept on it for a day, but, now , with hindsight I reallize that I was hooked. After attending a couple of DIDS meetings and reading some of the postings here - I could have known better. But, 'this (entrapment) was not going to happen to me...'.
So I went to vist father in law for the second time in the 7 months seperation. He cried over the separation and kissed me during my previous visit and I promised to visit him again. So here I was, last Wednesday, being welcomed by Father in law, being introduced proudly to all, and, at his insistance, invited to and stayed for Lunch.
I also had my guess at which hospital wife was in, confirmed. Also, was told of wife's older sister coming to pick him up to visit wife in hospital. As he does not go on many outings, it raised some concern that wife may be seriously ill. I promised to viset again and left after a nice lunch.
I am rambling but...
I decided to pop in on my wife who was about 10 minutes away. I bought what I thought was the nicest bunch of Lilac roses - her favourite colour, introduced myself at reception and nursing station and walked in on my wife.
She was sitting in bed fiddling with her Mobile, looking dishevelled but not that ill. The hostility and derision in her eyes certainly pointed to her having plenty of life left in her. I asked if she want me to leave and she said yes. So, I placed the flowers on the foot of her bed, wished her to get well, received a thank you and walked out.
I formed the impression that she was not about to die and was somewhat relieved , not withstanding all the other shit the family is going through - our battle about a financial settlement, adult sons and a grand doughter.
So , this morning, with my heeart thumping, waitng for the downloaded attachment on the screen, expecting a possible acceptance? a rejection? of the property settlement offer I made I got a javascript:emoticon('')
Gotcha.
My first impulse was to dob wife to our 2 sons. I write to them and they don't acknowledge the letters. Nor any other contact with them for four months.
Than I thought that I would write to them a draft but not send it.
Than I remembered DIDS.
So here we are, I feel a little better, and, again, it is a positive to have DIDS to unload to, though I can't help but feeling somewhat obscene at flinging my families shit at other people's feet.
I don't feel that way about other people's problems and I trust and believe that DIDS members are accepting and understanding. Still, thats how I feel.
I definitely get those uncomfortable denials of my situation, from people in my private life. This to the point that I resolved to say as little as possible to as few people as possible outside of DIDS.
I guess that says a lot about me and my friends, but, that is a whole other story.

Hey fun,

We are all still guilty for falling for the traps at times and with all the best intensions.

Personally I would not be able to help myself replying to her lawyer stating that you oblige her personal request to stay away from the hospital where you requested her permission to enter her room and was instructed by her to leave upon which you wished her health and left. As you will honour any request by the father-in- law to do the same if so instructed by him but you will not deny him a relationship if he wishes to contiue the friendship.

Lets face it her lawyer acts on the behalf of his client who can request that you not see her but he can't tell you who you can be friends with in a mutual relationship.

What did your lawyer say ????

Thanks for the wise words D4E,
This was a fun reply, left me with a satisfied grin on my face, as if I replied to her lawyer as imagined by you.
Of course there is a limit to how far into a swamp, even an old fool like me would venture. So for now I will resist replying her lawyer.
My lawyer just past the letter to me with a neutral offer to discuss it if I chose to. I get the impression that he stopped hiding his boredom and disinterest in my wife's and mine antics. That I believed that he is getting paid handsomely for assisting me with a winning strategy may be another folly of mine.

I remember years ago, nearly 12 now, hearing that Hubby's Ex defacto had given birth to their child. 1 month earlier than due. I telephoned the hospital (which was told to me by associated friends) to enquiry after the baby to ask if it (hubby was not told the sex) was ok. A child is a child afterall....

Shortly after, my Solicitor (also Hubby's) received a letter stating that I had greatly upset the other party by making enquiries into her health. As I certainly did not ask after her (she could have departed this world for all I care after the trouble she has given me) my Solicitor wrote a similar letter back, that is, we heard the baby was born prem', we wanted to know that it was ok, and that no enquiries were made into the Mother's well being.
Solicitor also wrote that we would not be enquiring again, and we haven't. Although then the Mother wrote a long letter telling Hubby how perfect he was, everything ok, before submitting to CS an application for additional financial assistance because the baby was prem' and in need of additonal care....

Too darn confusing for me!

javascript:emoticon('')Hey 2ndfamily
Confused
Thanks for your reply. It most definitely helps me not to feel on my own with my shame at being treated this way.
In my day they used to say: 'if you can't beat them confuse them'. The Family Court version may be: ambush 'em, confuse 'em first make 'em easier to beat.

Further to my shame, I ommited to tell that the wifes solicitor's letter also informed that: father in law was so distressed by my visit that he ended up in hospital.
FIL was fine when I left him and invited me to come and have a dinner with him. javascript:emoticon('')
Mad

I do wonder whether your Father In Law is even aware of these letters?

Rather its a case of your Ex wanting to keep you away from her Family....

Perhaps in time, when you have the time and he is better, then you can sit down somewhere neutral (so he is making his way to meet with you rather than you coming around to him) and ask him frankly of his feelings and to express to you whether your company is required or not....

It amazed us, going on our experience with older family, that one uncle and aunt who had been married for many years, separated, the uncle wanted everyone in the family to drop contact with the aunty... which none of us did, however that Uncle will not speak with anyone now, nor turn up at family events in case "she" will be there.

Sometimes people attempt to take others choices away from them, without consultation.

It all sounds so familiar. "If you speak to him (or her) then you don't love me." We usually see it relation to children, one parent seeking to enroll the children in their personal emotions and have them as allies against the other parent. All very childish

I would suggest raisng with Father in Law, Suggesting it is his call as you do not wish to enroll him nor are you trying to use him against your ex wife, and that if your visit cause him distress or cause other problems, then you would cease visiting unless he asked.

Re your adult sons. You might write to them expressing disappointment that they have chosen to prejudge you without the courtesy of asking your side. And the fact that they should not feel compelled to take sides as it was never your intention to have them in the middle. Acknowledge the actions reamian their choice as adults, but are and always will be your son's and that you love them whatever they decide.

Re the letter from her solicitor - ignore it. Their is nothing in family law that allows one party to "Legaly" define the realtionship of the other party with other adults (and that includes adult children). Remember, if you left the last visit to your father in law on good terms, and he then visited his daughter, it is extremely likely that she gave him an earfull and was the cause of his distress (If he is in hospital at all, and it was triggered by distress). You bear no responsibility for you EX's attitude or behavior.

Evil or Very Mad
Hi 2ndfamily and OneAdad,

I will be brief, this time, about the father in law. I will probably bring a reliable witness, preferably female, next time I visit.

Another source of my pain and internal conflict is my (non) relationship with my sons. I am guilty of deliberately behaving in ways similar to the behaviors you derided.


The ambush and separation left me homeless (house sold - wife co signatory to proceeds) with minimal income insufficient to meet outstanding and current expenses. It was only a matter of time before disaster... . In desperation, I tried to enlist our sons to help me. They are the only source of influence over my wife that I had access to.
Wife fobbed them off and they fobbed me off. I felt terribly let down by our sons, let alone most of my friends who pretended to sit on the fence not wishing to take sides. I believed that I was fighting for what was left of my life and that it was worth fighting for. I abused my sons and distanced myself from others who would not fight alongside me. So here is another example of men behaving badly, after being deceived and betrayed.
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Idea
Getting back to the entrapment issue, thanks to DIDS I finally came to realize that becoming estranged from our sons is part of wife's plan of alienating me from all... . Me being right in that context becomes pointless.
So, I decided to contact the boys, apologize for the abuse and tell them how I feel!

Phew... and this is the abridged version.

"homeless" was also how my Hubby thought of himself, after 10 years (4 prior to the ex defacto) of working 13 day fortnights to build up his nest egg, he went from having 3 houses to nothing... all gone. He moved his tools up to my house. That's all, plus the car and a friend's futon, he had left.

However fortunately he was able at the time to maintain overtime to pay for accomodation in a private boarding situation. I went with him to several "rooms" available and some were absolutely disgusting for the money they wanted.

Eventually we found another single man renting a large home. It was a peaceful place for Hubby to get his head back together again.

for some reason, and this has always confused me, "you" are not supposed to feel any anger or resentment over this happening.. I don't know why, but the authorities seem to think its ok for someone to steal your belongings, and say "take it to the family court" to sort out, when the items have long gone.

Many things he was unable to get back, simply denied access to them, as "she was in hiding, in fear of her life with them" type crap. Pity she didn't tell the Court she was still entering the main home to wonder about after removing everything...

Time is a good healer though.

From my point of view, adult children don't really want to get involved in their parents mess, so perhaps you can start off with the Boys not even discussing it, rather find an interest in whatever sport/team they follow, see if they need a hand around their garden/house. Be involved by being "helpful" or at least offering and keeping in touch using it as an excuse.

Perhaps in time, they will ask questions, but at their own pace. Know though that you are not on your own, there are many of you out there. The silent majority I would think.

I agree with 2F, not only is anger, frustration and resenment frowned upon but it is also used as a tool, a trigger to show those arround the kids, X and legal profession that the X is correcting in fearing for the safety of her family.

As far as using allienation tactics with the kids or fighting fire with fire can be a natural progression for someone who does not know the negative effects it has on the kids.

We are all human and many do not think past their initial moment, and many fight by mirroring others as a defence. Shout at me I'll shout back, hit me and I'll hit back but if you talk calm I'll talk calm back. A lot of this is controlled by one emotion, fear.
You can't change this until you know it's effects and then you can move forward by making an effort or you can ignore this fault and stay where you are.
Usually you find this behaviour is attached to past experiances that you have learnt and is a mechanism in dealing with fear in this situation, but as you have found out with effort it can be changed and at the time I doubt very much if you knew it was wrong but rather simply a defence mechanism that kicked in.

Like it or not people take sides and because of this friends are lost, I had friends that I knew for 20 years or so that were more sympathetic to my X who believed the lies with out even discussing things with me, I don't communicate with them anymore, I had known them since they were teenagers and they alliened with someone they knew for 5 years, as far as I'm concerned they weren't friends. Especially when they stayed friends after my X stopped contact.

Point is sometimes you have to lose to win, you have to be willing to sacrifice and let go. You have to look inside yourself to find triggers the other person is opperating in familiar ground they see how we react and is instinctive to use our reactions against us and visa versa, so we also have to remove ourself from the game by not using their triggers and now you have to learn about your sons responses and reactions whilst not degrading their mother which is easier said than done so don't be too hard on yourself if you muck up occationaly just instead learn by your mistakes.

Your doing your best fun and thats all you need to do.

Best of luck

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Fight
Hi 2ndfamily,

Thanks again for the understanding and encouragement. I am determined to become a DIDS success story.

My homelessness (official definition) is due to my choice to fight against a Financial Settlement that would leave me with a room as a home.

If your confusion regarding men's entitlement to angry reactions is not diplomatic and rhetorical, than you may consider (at the risk of sounding preachy) the following theory. The behaviour of disadvantaged people is controlled by labelling them as 'Bad or Mad'. Then people can be 'justifiably' punished or 'therapised' into conformity and submission. I am considering taking anti depressants.

As to our sons, I keep writing - 'my' sons, I tried to be a useful resource to them, since their rebellious Teens and eventual leaving home. So, I guess I will swallow my pride, put my principles on the back burner and try and protect and nurture the remnants of my relationship with them.

It is an amazing feeling to think that I can thank you in advance for wishing me luck with my resolutions. VIVA LA INTERNET.

Hi Fun

As a user of anti-depressants I encourage people to use them when they are needed, some only need them for a short time to get over a hump. In the same breath I'd also advise to reduce alchol intake as well as any drugs as they can add dramatically to depression. Sometimes a change in lifestyle greatly increases tollerance. Add this with learning relaxation and meditation techniques and you will be supprised how quickly you will pick up but don't expect this will stop bouts of depression, rather use it as a tool to lessen the effects of depression.

Be prepaired for changes in your resoloutions, remember your idea of how to deal may not be the boys idea of what works for them, the best advice anyone can give is to be yourself just more sensative to their opinions and views, if you try and change to something your not it will be a facade you won't be able to keep up.

We all need luck and the turn of a friendly card when we are trying to do good.

Hubby was also surprised at the loss of contact from people he had known for many years. The best ones though saw through her lies and accusations, because the claims were so far fetched. some of these friendships go for over 25 years, and I think perhaps the support that Hubby gave them during their ups and downs, broadened their own minds somewhat, to be able to cope better when it happened to him. One Friend has been through settlement with 3 different Women now. He just retains a permanent solicitor these days......

I feel for anyone else going through the same, but where the accusations may sound a little more believeable, although are still untrue. I don't think you ever get these people back, rather you find new ones and you grow and move along from this experience....

Its hard to spend time sorting out the trials that others lay for us. Its hard sometimes just to sort out what mess we find ourselves in anyhow! But I think good will come into your Life Fun. I do wish you well!

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Fight
Thanks 2ndfamily and D4E,
I can try resentfully, to come to terms with loosing friends who take X's side. I have trouble with the hypocrisy of them claiming: 'not wanting to take sides'; that - bothers me.

Phoned our 29 and 27 YO sons after the above postings. I groveled and apologized for the Sh*%# I put them through. They were very 'grown up' gracious and understanding in accepting my apology.

Spent Fathers Day: visiting mine in the cemetery, and received a phone call from another DID (not a member). Not a whisper from sons or X (who received a Happy Mothers Day SMS from me).

If I were perfect, I would not place expectations and would not be disappointed.

As to taking the prescribed Anti Depressant; I decided to continue to enjoy the occasional beer or wine which also help me to get to sleep. I know the source of my depression and am trying to deal with the Separation with your help. As my biggest presenting problem is the effect of lack of sleep, I may search for a preferably drug free Self Help Discipline.javascript:emoticon('')
Cheers

You have held out the olive branch fun, now it's up to them.

it takes a lot of courage to do what you have done and put yourself in such a vunerable position, as we do not know the circumstances as to what happenend between yourself and your sons it would be hard to say anything more than just keep them in your heart and hope one day they will open theirs.

Unfortunatly one of the side effects of depression and anxiety can be disrupted sleep paterns which in turn builds on the cause and increases anxiety and depression, a visiouse circle with teeth.

There are many ways of helping deal with depression naturaly which include homiapath, accupressure, meditation and also E.F.T.
The best idea is try them out and use what works and of course reduce your intake of caffiene and go for a nice walk.