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Should DNA Testing be Mandatory?
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: http://dadsindistress.forumup.org/viewforum.php?f=34&mfo Reply with quote

No I think it would be foolish to explain away Jesus, as he is too well set in reality , History. Even Josephus the Historian of Jesus' time with us speaks of him (and as I have a copy and not a memory ), said
Quote:
" Now their was about this time a man ,if it be lawful to call him a man , for he was a doer of wonderful works , a teacher of such men who had a veneration*for truth : He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the gentiles; -he was the Christ , and when Pilate , at the suggestion of the principal men among us , had condemned him to the cross , those that loved him at first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day , as the divine prophets had spoken of these , and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him ; whence the tribe of Christians , so named from him are not extinct at this day. "


*(Profound respect or reverence)

I am now tired from my study and to make sure of its accuracy in passing it on, I will rely more-so later on the articles above.

Thanks
Col
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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 413
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Difference Between Then and Now Reply with quote

Yes, this is back to what I said before.

I was referring to the Law of Moses on adultery.

Translation. Does this refer to mankind? Both man and woman? Or is this just the interpretation of some?

We heard of the story of Mary Magdalene - a woman. Have we heard of a similar story of a man?

Until the '60s, the Law of Moses was never really buried. No. We don't LITERALLY stone her. But she loses face. She's being ostracized. She's called a dissolute woman. Etc. Etc.

But if a man does the same, he becomes a ladies man. The envy of other men. Etc. Etc.

Those people who are hung up on the '60s remember that those were the crazy times. Riots and demonstrations were the fads. They stopped behaving like they'd all been knocked out of the same stamping plant. They wanted to change things. One of them was the cruel formalities that disadvantaged women.

Things did change. But did things change for the better?

This goes back to the question: where should we head? Towards becoming more religious? Or towards becoming more democratic?

Bear in mind that the difference between then and now is that we now have the technology to develop a DNA database to track down the real parents of a child.

No, Colin. I'm not expecting danger money from you. As I said, "Risk defines life".




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like a wheel within a wheel, ....."
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: > Other - Miscellaneous Reply with quote

Yes , well may I firstly say that my answer was to D4e's comment, not at all placing to one side the question of Moses.
Quote:
Or am I relying too much on the commandments and words of Jesus ????


Now to Moses who by God was given the 10 Commandments which is the basis for much of the Western World's laws, respected if not kept or used within the framework of most religions.
You see , Christianity is not a religion.

Religion from Dictionaries and Encyclopedias state the following
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
A system of religious belief: confession, creed, denomination, faith, persuasion, sect.

In God speaking through and by His Son Jesus and the Prophets prior , Jesus arriving on the scene, religion was man's/woman's way of devoting themselves to a belieif system made up by men, mankind.

Yet even the word Christianity or ' Christian ' only appears once in the 66 books of 'The Holy Bible ( It is called Holy Bible, as Bible means Book)

Other religions are...
Definition: belief in higher power
Antonyms: agnosticism, atheism, disbelief

Back to Moses . I see the questions darting , and wisely so, around the 10 Commandments and the Laws of the Prophets. But none of those who received the Law could keep the Law. They were not given for that purpose . The Law showed up how far they and we fall very short of that which God wanted. Sure he wanted them to keep the law as best they could, yet as they couldn't a blood of and animal was to be a sacrifice for the cleansing of God's people,.....until, I repeat until the perfect full and sufficient sacrifice if God's Son, Jesus.
The 10 Commandments weren't to be done away with, at Jesus coming, they in fact were fulfilled.
They were in fact everything that God loved and everything that God hated.
Jesus rapped the 10 into two Love God, Love your neighbour !

And Jesus' longest known sermon which we call the Sermon on the Mount was Jesus teaching his Disciples what the Commandments really meant. Matthews Gospel Chapter 5 , 6 , 7 to the end of chapter 7., where the crowds were amazed at his teaching , because he taught as one who had authority , and not like the teachers of the law. verses 28 and 29.

Laws don't need to be except in a lawless society of individual people.
eg; The guy across the road from you wants to dig up your front lawn, if you have one, and take it across the road to his place and lay it there. That isn't a loving caring thing to do without asking,...... which then if asking,..legal permission can be given and you can make your reply.
No You certainly cannot!!!!!
OR..bY ALL MEANS yes that's fine dear mate as I am sick of mowing it anyway, I intend PLACING GREEN CONCRETE IN ITS PLACE AND JUST MOW THE CRACKS.!!

Unless you read the Sermon on the Mount and study it carefully , you will never understand the Law of Moses.
Jesus clearly explains.." You have heard it said to the people of long ago, do not murder, and anyone who murders is subject to judgment ' ; But I tell you anyone (once again male female) who hates/is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment .

The key to understanding the Sermon on the Mount is that many of the Pharisee's, the so called bad guys in the New Testament used the 'Minimum requirement of the Law' basis for interpreting and living out the Law.'

Ask again if I have missed your point.
Best regards Col

Quote:
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important.
C. S. Lewis
who was one time an atheist until he read the words of Jesus.


Last edited by Colin Spratt on Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: http://dadsindistress.forumup.org/viewforum.php?f=34&mfo Reply with quote

Altricio Tan Yep! Sorry, in regard to the law of Moses. And your statement on

Quote:
Difference Between Then and Now
Yes, this is back to what I said before.

Quote:
I was referring to the Law of Moses on adultery.

Translation. Does this refer to mankind? Both man and woman? Or is this just the interpretation of some?


The last post I made reference to Jesus giving the real , true, maximum requirement of the Law . For all of mankind.

Matthew chapter 5: verses 27...Jesus speaking. " You have heard that it was said; ' Do not commit adultery; But I tell you that anyonewho looks on a woman lustfully, has already committed adultery with her in his heart ."

Now the Pharisee's among us would then go to the minimum requirement and a totally literal translation , yet don't miss the point of myself or others looking lustfully at say pornography. The Pharisee will just say " Well its just art !" And sometimes it is Art. There is no reason for a red blooded guy to look at a beautiful woman whom God has made and say in his mind ,..she is indeed a beautiful woman. But then some will want to ask me at what point is adultery with her adultery. You will know., we have been given a conscience. And yes , it is meant for women as well, who tend to lust after a man's position of wealth I would think. It certainly is the case shown so often by men and women. The bottom line is God hates divorce, as we see what it does to so many folk and kids, who wouldn't hate it for whatever reason.

The areas many have the most difficulty getting right in a marriage or relationship are MONEY, SEX, and POWER . Each rightly taken in good balance is hard work, yet worth it.

Colin

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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 413
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:53 pm    Post subject: The Words of Jesus Reply with quote

"What God has joined together, let no man [I believe this refers to mankind] put asunder". I think this is what Jesus said.

I once read a mag article that advised men, "If you want to avoid accidentally paying child support, stay home and do your own thing. Because if you go out and waltz with a lady and she gets pregnant .....".

Perhaps, the DNA database is the answer.

Why? To avoid accidentally having to pay child support elsewhere, a husband won't be too keen to go out and tango with another wife [twaf] whose husband is away having twaf whose husband is away having twaf whose husband .....

Every couple will stick to the Words of Jesus. Oh, well. Give and take a few adventurous ones.

"Nothing happens by chance. Everything is part of some greater design. (Sic)".

After the Great Designer destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah (the twin cities of sin), He promised to Lot (?) that He won't repeat it. Once again, mankind has fallen into sin. The Great Designer has to do something to His design and yet not break His promise to Lot. So, He introduces the DNA database technology into His design. It's now up to mankind to develop this. And save mankind.

Now, why am I talking all this? I'm supposed to be the devil's disciple. Not a preacher of the Good Word.




________________________________________
"Some represent the ideal. I am reality. (Sic)".
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Colin Spratt



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: PAGE 8 , GOING FOR THE GUINNUS BOOK ??? Reply with quote

Hey AT, you have lost me on this one, though (SIC) , Who or what is the abbreviation? I know Sic to be a latin word.eg..A misspelled or incorrect word in a quotation followed by "[sic]" indicates that the error appeared in the original source.

I take it you are looking for the cure of wayward men and women using one another for sexual gratification and with little care of the result?...No? Yes?

Always good to hear from you, and while I am speaking with you, how are you doing? Really.

I've been a bit down, yet that is part of my depression. Think I need my meds upped a bit. Seeing a new Psychologist to assist my motivation.
Take care, none of us are perfect.
Col

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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 413
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Sic Reply with quote

Hi Colin,

I believe Sic means some or all of the contents in that statement enclosed in quotes (" ") are copied from someone's.

The statement "Some represent the ideal. I am reality." is not mine. It's copied from I-don't-know-where.

What I mean is, perhaps, the DNA database can help keep naughty husbands out of mischief. If a husband covet his neighbor's wife and the wife gets pregnant, he gets into trouble, not only by the law because he has to pay child support but also by his neighbor who might put a contract on his head, when the DNA database tracks him down.

So, he'd be safer to stick to his wife. Which is what the Lord Jesus wants, right?

I'm ok, Colin. Just having difficulty in keeping myself out of mischief. Girls have always been my weakness. Guess that's the price I pay for being a child of Adam and Eve. Also, because there's no DNA database to track me down should she get pregnant.
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Colin Spratt



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: > Other - Miscellaneous Reply with quote

Hi Altricio Tan ,
Thanks and good to here your 'only' weakness is women. That's ok you are a male with red blood running through your veins and women are both beautiful on the inside character and the outside . They can view us as being pretty hip also , although I am yet as a male to fully understand a woman's attraction to a man , but God put it there. As you say, keeping out of trouble is best.

Did you notice we're on page 8 now? We will probably die writing together about the subject..DNA.......yet changes are needful absolutely.

Got a joke for you....Fast Drinker
A guy goes into a bar, orders twelve soda's and starts drinking them as fast as he can.

The bartender says, "Dang, why are you drinking so fast?"

The guy says, "You would be drinking fast if you had what I had."

The bartender says, "What do you have?"

The guy says, "75 cents."

Take extra good care of yourself.....and those girls!
Col
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Sex and the Single Adult Reply with quote

[CENSORED] and the Single Adult

"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your
earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust,
evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." STATES THE 'MAN ABOVE'

Having worked for a number of years with singles
especially in the area of divorce and grief recovery,
a constant question raised by many has to do with
sexuality. As one person asked, "How far can [an
unmarried] couple go regarding being intimate sexually
without compromising their integrity as Christians?"

The truth Jesus speaks of ,....is no-where. It's looking for a minimum requirement of God's good ideals for marriage.. a pharisees' question!

And we are overburdened with DNA testing...Abortion issues. There is nowhere to go until married.
You don't need practice marriage....the plumbing works!!!!


I heard one teacher say that [CENSORED] for single adults
wasn't a problem because if you aren't having sexual
relations, you lose your desire for it. That makes
about as much sense as saying if you aren't getting
food, you lose your desire for it. I heard a
well-known teacher state that the answer for [CENSORED] and
the single adult was discipline. Both of these
teachers were married!

True, discipline is certainly needed but discipline
alone isn't sufficient. Having been single myself for
a number of years, I can understand the struggle and
the challenge.

But why does the Bible teach that [CENSORED] is for married
couples only? There are a number of good reasons. It
is so unwanted babies will not be brought into the
world--or babies without both a mother and father to
care for them.

It is a protection against disease ...
including the deadly disease of AIDS. Also, when a
couple gets involved sexually too soon, they can
become physically bonded without becoming bonded in a
healthy manner emotionally and spiritually.

Also, sexual intimacy can blind a couple to reality
and cause them to ignore major character weaknesses in
their partner. It can stop them growing as whole
persons and easily become an addiction. It can leave
committed couples guilt-ridden and destroy what could
have been a wonderful relationship.


For a couple that chooses to live in harmony with
God's will and save [CENSORED] for marriage, how can they
cope with their powerful [CENSORED] drive?


First, it is advisable to keep yourself accountable to
a trusted friend or group of the same sex.

Second, it is wise to have interests so you can
sublimate much of your [CENSORED] drive by pouring your
energy into creative and fulfilling pursuits such as
serving others, having a hobby, or a work into which
you can put your heart and best efforts.

Third, be sure to get legitimate needs met in
legitimate ways. For example, we have a need for
several areas of intercourse (besides sexual
intercourse) such as the following:
Intellectual intercourse--a mutual sharing of ideas.

Social intercourse--being with and sharing social
times with friends of both sexes.

Emotional intercourse--an honest sharing of feelings
with trusted friends and developing healthy
non-romantic relationships.

Spiritual intercourse--relating to and staying in
fellowship with God and living in harmony with his
will.
No not easy but do-able. And it is a win win situation.

"The most dishonest words you can say to a woman is" we can do it as we love one another" Use the other end of your anatomy...your will. No-one yet has died from using their brains, plenty from the opposite..., we are still awaiting the first fatality ! Rolling Eyes

Colin, who lives alone and learning.
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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 413
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Record Breaker Reply with quote

Hi Colin,

Yes, page 8. More than 100 replies. More than 2000 views. Record-breaking.

Any idea why this topic is so interesting? My apology for asking. But I'm really such an innocent man. Yes, innocent as a child.

And speaking of discipline, it means the offenders must be tracked down and "stoned". Both man and woman. Both must not get away with it. Otherwise, discipline can't be enforced.

I believe that's what the 10 Commandments say. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is addressed to the women. "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" is addressed to the men.

Break these commandments and the world is in chaos. And the ones most affected are the children. If paramount consideration is bic, we have to stick to these commandments.

The difficulty during the time of Moses and even up until the 90s(?) is identifying the male offender. With DNA, things are different.

In a way, DNA database is a democratic way of enforcing these commandments. A man and a woman are allowed to entertain themselves provided they face the penalty, ie., pay the entertainment price [ep]. This should make an effective deterrent. Why? Because the ep is now very, very expensive. How much does one pay child support nowadays?

He'd be better off sticking with his wife only. Why? Note another fact of life. A man, theoretically, can have an entire herd. But a woman cannot. So, he'll have less child support to pay if he stays with his wife.

*****

Now, let's talk about reality.

Personally, I prefer to gatecrash into the Sydney Opera House to watch an entertainment than to pay the ep. More exciting. I always feel good when I'm bad. Same with any other entertainment. Too young to understand the consequences. Don't know what's wrong in sleeping with another man's wife. I'm simply providing company with a lonely wife while her husband is elsewhere providing company with another lonely wife. It's an act of charity, isn't it?

If she gets pregnant, so what? Her husband can look after the child. He doesn't have to know who's the real father.

And who knows? This act of charity might be rewarded. If she gets to like me so much, she will secure an AVO against her husband. Don't you know it's easier for her to secure an AVO than for a kid to buy lollipop in a candystore? And, as a bonus, I'll be enjoying free rent at her husband's expense. Not to mention that he'll be paying child support for my child.

Oh, yes. Property settlement. No need to hurry. She can drag the matter on and on. Make it so expensive for her husband, he'll be forced to accept the terms she dictates. If she loses the house, she risks losing me as well. The only reason I'd continue to stick with her is the free rent I'm enjoying. Frankly, by then, I'd already be sick and tired of her. If I push my luck, I might even get a piece of the pie.

Yeah, it's a brilliant idea. Why didn't I think of this before? I am reality.

*****

And speaking of being bad, at one time I bumped into a nurse who looked after me during my dialysis days in a shoppingtown. She said, "Hi Al! The other day we [in the POW hospital] were talking about you. .....". Didn't realise I've become a celebrity there.

I did give them a lot of trouble during my transplant. Instead of being confined for a fortnight, I was discharged after 7 weeks. Not to mention that, 1 year later, I was again confined for 1 month. I broke the record on the number of saline bags consumed by a transplant patient each day. They, especially the nephrology professor, were scratching their heads not knowing what to do. To quote what the urology professor later said, "To be honest with you, Al, I've never seen anything like it before". Eventually, they fixed the problem.

Or, perhaps, that little fellow down below doesn't want me yet. Neither does the Big Fellow up above. They still want me to remain here on earth to enjoy life longer.

Perhaps, another reason was because the lovely ladies there (nurses, doctors, cleaners, every lady) loved me so much they wanted me to stay long. Oh, yes. They really took good care of me.

Understand now, Colin, why it's very, very difficult for me to keep myself out of mischief?

Can't help it, though. Mankind is weak. Doomed to commit the 7 capital sins every now and then. That's the price we pay for original sin. The sin we inherited from our first parents, Adam and Eve.

Reminds me of a joke.

Husband [H]: it was Eve's fault. If she did not tempt Adam, Adam would still be in Paradise.

Wife [W]: but will Adam be happy without Eve in Paradise? No, my dear. Adam will be very, very, very, very lonely.

H: woman, without her man, is a savage.

W: WOMAN! without her, man is a savage.

Oh, well .......




_____
You only live once,
and life is too short.

Take time to do mischief,
otherwise, life isn't worth living.

_________________
"If the people cannot trust their government to do the job for which it exists - to protect them and to promote their common welfare - all else is lost."
- Barack Obama


Last edited by Altricio Tan on Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Dear Al , once more Reply with quote

Dear Al , once more you have eloquently spoken on a number of topics , and your news of your own life and hospitalisation is well noted as I read of you.

Sorry you have had to cope with so much, though as you say you were well cared for. Well as Easter is coming up, I thought we may have space for a greeting card.

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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 413
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Organ donor Reply with quote

I recently heard of a girl who had an organ transplant but did not have to take anti-rejection drugs. Interesting, isn't it?

I'd like to take this opportunity to ask everybody to become organ donors. Don't take your organs to heaven. Others need them here.
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beh



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Altricio:
Checking out this thread as you suggested in my thread "Introduction/ A Bit Far Afield". Some good thoughts/ideas contained herein! Seems to be a very hot topic with men.

I can see the value in mandatory DNA testing . . . as I mentioned in my other thread I recently had a visitor to my Blog (dudesndivorce.com) mention that he had discovered a study which indicated a very high rate of paternity fraud. I think knowing that when you had your child in the hospital that a paternity test WOULD be given would certainly cut down on the number of women attempting to take advantage of men in this fashion.

Sounds cold perhaps but I believe there are a LOT of men who accept responsibility for a child based on good faith and little else. Harsh as it may sound Reagan's principle of "trust but verify" is pretty sound policy!

Have a great day

Bill
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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 413
Location: NSW

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Why No Mandatory Testing at Childbirth yet? Reply with quote

Bill,

Been wondering why mandatory testing at childbirth is not yet enforced in Australia, USA, everywhere?

Maybe because, if paternity fraud, who's gonna assume responsibility for the father's role if the real father can't be tracked down? If it's still the "father", what's the point?

And, frankly, I find DNA database a crazy idea. But who knows what might come out of this crazy idea? Years ago, I read the book "Future Shock" written in the '70s by Alvin Toefler. It was predicting what's gonna happen beyond 2000. It had nothing that look like Internet, cyberspace, DNA.

Regards,
Al Tan




____________________________________________________________
"Just when I knew all of life's answers, they changed all the questions" (Sic)
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beh



Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Tan

Would seem that a man upon whom paternity fraud had been inflicted would have recourse through the civil courts (THERE'S an oxymoron - "civil" court?). I'm not aware of this happening much but fraud is fraud and in my book this is fraud of the worst sort.

I don't know that I'd be a big supporter of a DNA Database - a bit too "Big Brotherish" for my taste . . . but to include a DNA test in the battery they already perform on the wee tyke wouldn't be much of an adjustment and Could save a lot of men a lot of grief and expense.

Thanks

Bill
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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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Location: NSW

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:10 am    Post subject: "Big Brotherish" Reply with quote

Bill,

I don't disagree with you. But I'd add that while DNA testing is peanuts, developing a DNA database is a nightmare.

Although I suspect USA already has something like this but limited only for fighting against terrorism.

Anyway, the other thing I'm wondering is why fathers seem to be indifferent in this matter. Don't think there's some kind of a father's rights movement for mandatory testing at childbirth even in USA. Something similar to Martin Luther King's civil rights movement before.

Cheers,
Al
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Altricio Tan



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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Location: NSW

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Should DNA testing be mandatory at childbirth? Reply with quote

"Dispassionate objectivity is itself a passion, for the real and for the truth."
- Abraham Maslow

_________________
"If the people cannot trust their government to do the job for which it exists - to protect them and to promote their common welfare - all else is lost."
- Barack Obama
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