I am a little scared to post here because yu never know who will end up reading it Could be the ex and she might use it against me in proceedings ? Who knows ? I have worked with heaps of people over the years that have been suicidal. One person would tell me every week exactly how he was going to do it, show me his arms, give explicit details etc. It's frightening. I reckon someone can decide in a heartbeat, and then it's all too late. Did anyone see that movie 24 Hour Party People ? THere's one part in it where the guy is estranged from his wife, goes home, eats his dinner, watches tv alone, then calmly gets up and hangs himself. Based on real events, I remember distinctly when it happened. May 1980. The guy's name was Ian Curtis, lead singer with Joy Division. He was 23 when he died. I would like to put m own story up here, but not eeling comfortabe about it right now, so maybe in the future...........

I think there would be many who would like to post here but are affraid to admit to having these thoughts.

I will admit to many times having these thoughts. The only reason I am here is for the love of my children. I would not want them to go through life without me being part of it.

Besides it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But I do understand how some people can do it.

Yes, I agree, but it's still just about taboo to discuss suicide in any meaningful way. I suspect that a lot of people that do kill themselves could have been prevented from doing so if their was someone in their life that they could talk to about this. I know that in myb professional capacity I always encourage my clients to discuss it as openly as they can, and I don't soft soap the language or attempt to neutralise it. But in the end I think that to kill yourself is the ultimate triumph of nihilism over the soul....just my opinion though...............

I am not religious but rather spiritual but non the less like most am fascinated by cultural beliefs, although no expert the little I have experianced tends to show that in a lot of cultures suicide is exepted as an alternate form of departure. Through history from the dawn of time and even now it has existed.
In a basic sense are not all people who chance a healthy existance by increasing their chance of death like for instance smokers, taking a pacive form of suicide, our armed forces themself are designed to protect our country and culture, should they be considerd suicidal because they willing will give their lives to protect our country because they see that as a last resort. people who consider themself freedom fighter who fight against tirany and terrorism will die rather than give up their cause become Matars, Fathers shoot themself on the steps of court to try to draw attension to the plight of other Fathers because it is to late for them.
I have been to dark places were I stood alone, one thing shot me into existance one single thought " She needs me " my daughter.
I wonder how many suicides are nihilistic compared to revenge which ever way it goes there are way too many and the only way I see as to put a stop to it is through support, education and allowing Fathers more say in their childrens life, to reconise that we are important to our kids.
A Father figure entering our childrens lifes can not replace us.
When I was in that dark place many thoughts went through my head and I can say one was of revenge just the same as one was of fear of the future, I had even been convinced I was a bad Father and husband, this took place at my lowest point as always my wife had impecible timing.
My X wife has openly talked about taking her life, wishing she was dead ect... ect...this would have left me with 3 stepchildren and my daughter this she did several times through our relationship, it was more of a threat than anything a way to get her way REVENGE.

rather than not talk about it, why not post as "guestA" for eg, may not be 100% but better than nothing...

I came accross this sometime ago and read it from time to time ...

Right Now -

-somebody is thinking of you.
-somebody is caring about you.
-Somebody misses you
-somebody wants to talk to you.
-somebody wants to be with you.
-somebody hopes you aren't in trouble.
-somebody is thankful for the support you have provided.
-somebody wants to hold your hand.
-somebody hopes everything turns out all right.
-somebody wants you to be happy.
-somebody wants you to find him/her.
-somebody is celebrating your successes.
-somebody wants to give you a gift.
-somebody thinks that you ARE a gift.
-somebody loves you.
-somebody admires your strength.
-somebody is thinking of you and smiling.
-somebody wants to be your shoulder to cry on.

SOMEBODY NEEDS YOU TO SEND THIS TO THEM

Never take away anyone's hope. That may be all they have

It seems topping yourself is a standard thought to have. Some get consumed by it too much and become the staistics.

Like D4E said, our kids need us. Scrubbing yourself out of the picture only gives time the opportunity to let them forget who we are.

There is no stigma, in speaking on this site. Those who go thro what many of us have, and others writing in and veiwing daily posts, letters ,thoughts need not be even hesitant to do so.

The problem of STIGMA is that it is created by those who are 'ill' themseves!!! I don't wish to be cruel, yet honesty and reality need to be given full flight when dealing with those folk who are not just at the end of their 'tether, or rope'! .... They're further down than that! They are in fact at the end of their 'bucket'!!, hanging on for dear life, while they await someone to help them carry the pain, that deep, insidious, crushing pain.

The type of agony that affects our entire body.And it is that in fact that most of us would die to rid ourselves of the losses and the pain that indwells us. We have'nt asked for it to be so!!

I said that those who 'promote' stigmatism are 'ill' themselves.......FOR THEY ARE ILL...INFORMED !!! And sadly so for all concerned, especially the sufferer.

DIDS Coffs Harbour have a CD on Suicide, & Understanding reasons why people of all ages take their own lives. IT also deals with SUICIDE PREVENTION, and I am sure that if you were to contact the DIDS office, men, women, teenagers, that they would advise you how to receive a copy if you are genuine in your need. I would suggest that if you find it helpful, as a sufferer, or a carer, you might like to then pass it on to others in need of critical and loving assistance. Please, just call the DIDS office, or ask at a Group in your area, and leave your , or a friends postal details if you wish to remain annon.

Ph 1300 853 437 or send an email

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with your request.

I can be emailed at :

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IF YOU NEED FURTHER ASSISTANCE.
Having, as many of you been to 'hell and back', i am well committed to DIDS, AND have been for almost 6 years. It is serious stuff, yet wonderfully challenging. As well as those thoughts, I would pay tribute to all of the Guy's , and Gal's who provide us with so much support and ongoing encouragement. I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING ,over the years, put in the,,, too hard basket!!! If anything, we don't have enough time in our days to do all we wish too.

Thanks for all who have, and do contribute to the Suicide Forum. I would be pleased to hear your suggestions of how we could revise the 'TOPIC', yet still use the word 'SUICIDE' within the framework, yet allow it to be user friendly to explore . Very best regards to all, Colin Spratt[/b]

I went through this (almost) exactly. I absolutely understand Ian Curtis. How many others have already joined him?

I will say this, irrespective of court proceedings etc:

The ONLY reason I am still alive today is my parents and my brother, who love me and support me, and have shared my extreme suffering with me.

I now intend to live for as long as possible purely so I can look after my daughter. Ironically, the threat of having her taken away forever was what made me most 'at risk' in the first place.

The most important thing in life is the people you care about.

It's taken me 30 odd years to realise this, and it was almost too late.

Sean wrote:

I am a little scared to post here because yu never know who will end up reading it Could be the ex and she might use it against me in proceedings ? Who knows ? I have worked with heaps of people over the years that have been suicidal. One person would tell me every week exactly how he was going to do it, show me his arms, give explicit details etc. It's frightening. I reckon someone can decide in a heartbeat, and then it's all too late. Did anyone see that movie 24 Hour Party People ? THere's one part in it where the guy is estranged from his wife, goes home, eats his dinner, watches tv alone, then calmly gets up and hangs himself. Based on real events, I remember distinctly when it happened. May 1980. The guy's name was Ian Curtis, lead singer with Joy Division. He was 23 when he died. I would like to put m own story up here, but not eeling comfortabe about it right now, so maybe in the future...........

Your comment on nihilism triumphing over the soul is interesting to me because I hear similar comments often from many people, including my brother. My problem with this formulation is it is too neat a theoretical twist on what is essentially a practical, very instantaneous, problem.

I believe people who kill themselves do so in a single moment of absolute fear and anxiety and grief: if you ever find yourself in such a moment, you will know of what I speak. There is only one way out of that place -- having someone you love, to talk to. If you don't have such a person, in all likelihood, you're gonna end up like Ian Curtis.

Calling this a 'triumph of nihilism' or similar may well be theoretically true and accurate, yet the pragmatics of the situation are belied by such rhetoric.

I spent hours looking at the concrete under my window, from seven stories up, and it never comforted me to think that my soul would win over nihilism if I didn't jump.

But hearing my brother's voice brought me to me senses.

And now I think I'll be OK. I've faced that dark moment and come through. Perhaps there will be others. But I am not ashamed and not afraid anymore.

There is a real problem with talking about this.

The irony, catch 22, call it what you will, is this -- the less someone at risk speaks about this, the more at risk they are; the more at risk they become, the less they will speak, for fear of damaging their legal prospects in any family court proceedings/other proceedings in which mental frame of mind becomes critically relevant.

My suggestion is that there needs to be a widening of legal professional privilege to encompass all forms of counsellors:

Psychiatrists, priests, and so on should be covered by legal professional privilege. (Even this community forum board should be covered.) There should be some kind of blanket legal exception for discussions relating to suicide/depression/mental illness designed to allow people to seek treatment but not be persecuted and judged for their need to seek treatment.

At present no such privilege exists: meaning if you tell your counsellor you are suicidal that counsellor's records can be subpoenaed and used against you in court.

Of course, you can tell your lawyer. But it's not going to help you much, since his brief is your courtwork and not how you feel. He will in fact advise you not to discuss what you are feeling with anyone.

Que sera, que sera.

Sean wrote:

Yes, I agree, but it's still just about taboo to discuss suicide in any meaningful way. I suspect that a lot of people that do kill themselves could have been prevented from doing so if their was someone in their life that they could talk to about this. I know that in myb professional capacity I always encourage my clients to discuss it as openly as they can, and I don't soft soap the language or attempt to neutralise it. But in the end I think that to kill yourself is the ultimate triumph of nihilism over the soul....just my opinion though...............

Revenge is not to be overlooked as well, but I suspect that covers the other disturbing phenomenon we read about in the newspapers all the time -- murder-suicides covering the entire family.

This is very sad, very troubling, and there doesn't seem to be very much to say.

One thought comes to mind: the current criminal-family court set up does not allow families in the process of being destroyed ANY prospect at healing, or self analysis.

What the system does is separate, and entrench that separation, and enforces that separation, especially if there is an AVO, which means noone can speak, noone can try and understand, and destructive feelings cannot be discussed and turned into positive ones.

I am not saying people do not need protection -- what I am saying is that there should be a compulsory mediation process in which parties come together and talk about their family and what has happened, and this can be in the presence of a third party (counsellor etc) in a safe, public location.

The proceedings would have limits:
- any use or threatened use of physical force would result in the meeting being disbanded immediately
- nothing said or done in the proceedings can be used in any legal proceedings whatsoever

Just an idea. I think most people would find this very rewarding.

The same process occurs and is very successful in the criminal court between strangers: namely, victim-offender consultation, in which the victim can express their suffering, the offender can learn the consequences of their stupid or nonsensical action.

Hi Andrew,

Yes it takes real bravery to both read and Post on the forum in regard to suicide, as I am very anxious for the person who is going through the depths of despair,...and say thet never feel suicidal!

It is a part of loss, deep grief, depression combined with anxiety that causes men , women, and teens to give up.With support from Family, friends that are true friends, that stick around as the days drole on, are one of the keys to bringing us through, until the depression is treated by talking it out , or added anti-depressants, and eventually lifts.

The more one can learn and come to terms with depression and anxiety, and other tricks of the body, the sooner the fear , that scary fear departs, as we realise we are not alone in the illness, which is not the real us.
Keep a balance in reading about suicide, but be aware that the thoughts come, and the thoughts go.

I placed 5 phone numbers to ring, written in large print by the phone for those times I was in hopelessness, yet found after speaking, or sharing on this Forum, that it shared my agony, and I felt able to get up and go on.

Take good care, eat well, sleep as well as you are able, and do not be tempted to think extreme guilt, as this also is a part of depression.

My encouragement along with those who speak on the Forum, you are doing well Mate, don't be hard on yourself is my closing encouragement.

Colin[/b]

It is widely acknowledged that divorce/separation brings for many men, most of what of considered to be the most stressfull events that a person can experience.

the list includes
Loss of partner
Isolation from children
Financial distress
Loss of housing
Risk of incarceration
Loss of achievements/assets
Physical, Emotional and Finacial abuse
and the list goes on.

Yet the experts refuse to connect the dots and acknowledge that men suffer as a result of relationship breakdown. They refuse to acknowledge that a mans circumstance have changed, including housing, finances, employability etc.

I don't make it a habit of placing real life situations on the Forum, yet in this case I have been given permission to do so by a Guy we will call Mervin !

Mervin was is burnout, deep clinical depression and trauma as well as anxiety attacks, totally exausted when he contacted DIDS.
HE COULDN'T WRITE ON THE fORUM, SO WE INVITED HIM TO EMAIL US, WHICH HE DID! GREAT, YET DIFFICULT STEP!

Mervin was seeing a Dr. and found little releif, yet kept going. After the 6 th email, and reply he called other help lines with no success, and he was desparate as all the losses mentioned in the above Post were his 'life'. He had lost, and was in his mind, and in reality loosing everything that had made life...life!

He wept bitterly day after day, exaustion made cleaning his teeth not worthy of the use of energy, life was futile.
There is,with Phsyciatrists a stress chart, loss of marriage 80 points, loss of job 48 points, loss of health 56 points, death of spouce 100 points, and so on......all of these point systems vary you may find.

Mervin's was 600 points!!!! It took 5 weeks of constant emailing phone calls text messages more phone conversations, un til he reached the end of his 'bucket and decided to quit life.

But he didn't, a team of caring folk spend hours with him from the local Hospital, gave him no indication that his life would be out of his control by taking him into a ward.

In all of this, people were involved, encouraging, listening, allowing the flood gates of tears to expell the inner pain,...exausted he slept, to awake to a cuppa and a few family friends.

If only folk would take our illnesses and pain seriously, listen, relisten and support till our feet work, and our exausted brains can calm, till over time we build faith in ourselves, a faith that was crushed and non-existent.

You know, it only takes ONE caring person, and Andrew had his Brother as one of those.
Mervin is alive today 17 th Nov.2006, because he was brave enough to say " hang what others think I NEED HELP! We all need it at times like these. Rest assured HELP is here, and HELP is out there and beside us, and also within ourselves as weak and broken as we are.
Thanks Mervin