Hi,

Well I have surely become the most recent addition to the Dads in Distress statistics and I could sure use some advice and support.

I am 39 and three and a half years ago I dived into a relationship with a now 32 y/o girl and took on her now 9 y/o son as my own. I was honored to have him accept me in everyway. We then had twins boy and girl. I was the most hands on type of father I could imagine. I had never spent a night apart from the twins before this.

Well my partner also gave lots of love however was troubled with depression (post natal and normal) eating disorder , cabin feaver etc. My partners parents decided early this year to move interstate and bought a small business in my wife and her brothers name. I suspect it was a decision to in effect hide their assetts as I now know that they have court cases against them for large debts. Their health problems were quite extreme as well owing to years of alcohol abuse.

Daily my wife hassled me that we could move our family there. School, Medical specialists , good job and career here, and the uncertainty of the financial stability are some reasons I resited the move. My wife started insisting that I must move there and this degarded into abuse , withdrawal from me ,

Her mother did end up getting quite ill she went up there to be with her 3 times in three weeks. I was left with the kids and took them up twice to visit as well. On the later ocasion her mum passed away. I took time off work and was up there with the kids awaiting her mums funeral. She was not functioning normally. She now became hateful towards me. . She told me it was my fault here mother died. Two days before her mums funeral I had had enough so I threw the twins in the car and drove home to Sydney overnight.

She agreed through solicitors in writing that she would not remove the kids She returned to our home in Sydney. I had move into a different bedroom and thought that it was good for the kids to have both parents in their own house.

The tension inside the house was escalating and after a couple of weeks it reached boiling point where she became violent in front of the kids. I had always remained calm and cooperative with her but she was the opposite being angry, abusive, made threats, and in the end violent where I called in the police to protect the kids.

The next day I returned home from work to find that she had taken the kids.I learnt she had actually taken them to Queensland after all. She then advised me by phone that she was staying there and has put 9y/o in school there and arranged daycare there for the twins.

I have immeadiatley applied to the court for short notice interim orders for custody and return to Sydney for the twins. The court has given me a date in 1 month for this hearing which is not as urgent as I hoped for. I have not seen my kids in over a week now and know they would be distessed by not seeing me. My wife has no family or support where she is other than a sick father who she claims to be carer for and she is trying to run the business there

My kids have an uncle, 2 doting aunties, my parents, 4cousins 7-15y/o who adore them all within 20kms of our sydney home.

Can she get away with this ..

If she does get to live there I feel my kids will lose the right to have substantial and meaninful time with me & my extended family..

What can I do legally to get my kids back without causing a scene.

Hey there dadaluvsya,

And welcome to the forum.

I'm not going to sprout off about the technicalities of the kids returning from another state as I know it is possible to achieve but I've had no experiance with it.

A lot depends on circumstances and representation as to weather she gets away with it but the main thing is you, and if you intend to fight for the kids rights ( whch is why most of us are here ).
Although being a carer for her sick father may be a necessity you could also argue that the kids are missing out because of this fact and add in that she is also running the business, if they come back with the father looks after the kids then express concerns with his healh.
The above was just to get you use to the fact that you do have options but need to plan for the time when you need to rely on them.

Can she get away with it - Yes she can if you give up or she has good council and luck, but you can do something about it and you have a chance if you stick to it.

As far as what can legaly be done to get your kids back with out causing a scene - well I guess if she agrees to let you have them that would be a start but even then it may still cause a scene.

This may well be just the start, depending on your kids age as to how things will effect them long term, I had contact with my daughter stopped for 4 months when she was about 3 1/2 and she can't remember anything about it, her memories also intermingle so she sometimes doesn't remember who was there when things happenend ect.

I'm a little frazzled at the mo so I may be comming across as a bit wishy washy but I'll try again in a day or two.

Just be sure to know that what your trying to do is worth every heart ache and every inconvience just try not to take the process that has to followed as a personal attack on you the system is very insensitive .

Thanks for the reply,

It has been nearly two weeks since I have seen my bubs and there is still three weeks to go till court. I don't think I would actually do anything about it but the thought of suicide comes into my head. It is really hard at the moment. Coming home to an empty house each day and thinkin about my kids is having cruel effect on me. Even though I am gettin lots of luv & support from those around me no-one can really help.

I am just concentrating on the fact that the if I don't fight her than I will have no control. I am just really gettin scared that if the court does by chance allow them to move 1100kms away I just don't think I will be able to cope with it.

I know there is no majic answers when it comes to the court but please if you know anything or anyone that has been where I am please let me know and share with me.

I will keep hangin on day by day

Hey dadaluvsya,

This isn't going to get any easier on you, you mention it's three weeks until court, what stage of court are you up to, have you been to mediation ? have you been stoped from seeing the kids or is it the distance thats the problem ?. Most here have been through varrying stages of seperations with varrying results so it's important that you let us know where you need help and what your resources are. If you intend to self rep you need to understand the basic system and to do this a visit to the Court web sight will help and inform you of what forms and replie forms are availible.

If you are at the very begining where you are attempting mediation then you need to get straight in your head what you want and what you will comprimise, if you are going for court mediation you have to really be settled and secure in yourself because it can be difficult and offensive, a natural reaction to defend yourself can quickly be observed as agression.

Where do you need help ??????

When this crap started out a thousand things at once flew through my head and I needed help with everyone of them and I had to prioritise as to their importance because 70 % of them were unimportant and self destructive to my cause. I had to ignore what was happening in the background and indeed my X's life, even if it effected my child and focus on the future I intnded to provide.

As far as suicide, I had the noose ready in true hangman fassion and a tree a few K's away so as I would be difficult to find. My need to be there in my daughters future and to stop her mother destroying her forced me into fighting for life and her with this I started to slowly work on focusing on how to do it.
None of us have control over anything but this does not mean we can not influence an outcome. Just think of the time when yur x realises that she isn't in control either.

You mention a step-son but not what happened to his father, sometimes looking to the past can tell us many things I know it opened my eye's

Start with a specific thing you need help with right now, realising something is happening in 3 weeks, what is it ?????????

Thanks for your reply,

I should go to a DID meeting not that I feel particually social at the moment. I am going home each night at the moment to an empty house and it is so hard. I am/was really close to my kids and what she has done is just wrong. She is throwing any sh*t she can to justify it too.

She seen the mediator once and I did 4-5 times and eventually the mediator issued the certificate saying it was not suitable for mediation.
She had an agreement through solicitors not to relocate the kids to QLD and still she took them there.
She even got violent one night to which a police report was filed.
My solicitor has filed short notice application for interim orders to return them here and give me full custody.
He thinks we have a fair shot at getting the kids back here but I am really worried as I have heard the family court can do weird things and usually always leans towards the mother (or so-called primary carer). She is claiming they have to be there to care for her sick father and run his motel which in in here & her brothers name. This is dodgy too as it was purchased with unproven "lotto win" and her father has pending supreme court action against him for large debts from a luiqidated business. He is the only family support they have up there. I have sisters, brother, parents, nieces, and nephews all within 20kms of home who all adore the kids.

I am really quite comprimising on nearly anything except them living so far away. I am still in the family home which she half owns and i am paying the mortgage fully and she probably expects to walk back into if I am lucky enough to get them back.

I just have to get them back here as it is like being denied contact if they are so far away. She is saying at the moment if I go there she will not allow me to see them and hide them and get avo etc.

The main thing for me is to have them back here and that is what I want help with.

How do I find out about my step-sons dad. I had always accepted he was violent and thats why he was not around however now I wonder if she pulled the same sh*t with him. Most men would have been violent with what I have been through with her but I have not.

Thanks for listening mate

Hi again dadaluvsya,

Try not to believe the public hype about domestic violence in this situation, most of here are here because we want a reasonable peaceful soloution and are infact victims of abuse. Abuse is not only fists and feet it is also what we suffer mentally through degridation and verbal abuse and the reason we suffer is because we are not violent and will not lower ourself to fight on their level.

As far as moving back into the marital home simply say no. Allow the kids back absoloutly but say no to her and if need be help her find accomodation but you stay put. the property issue well aint that a blessing and a hinderance, you are both subject too liability as well as value of property and posessions, it could work in your favour if the property has significant value and may even secure your home mortgage free so stay put.

Forget about her father and the mess he is in and concentrate on your family, the court will not care about his position but you may want to do your homework about what care homes are availible in your area close by and suggest that it is more viable to move him and accomedate contact for all concerned, especially if he is in need of constant care.

As I have said many times before you roll your dice with the courts but it doesn't hurt to edge your bets so start doing your homework, take that document to have it legally apraised and see if it is infact something that you can produce in court as evidence.

If you know nothing about your step-sons father than forget it, realise that he is old enough to make a choice and even though it hurts like hell, trust me I know I lost three step-kids, you have to now concentrate on your children and hope your step son see's sense, you know you'll be there it's all up to him now so let it be.

Keep in your mind if you are not well you are no good for the kids.

No-one here will say " Yes you will get them back " we will say you need to get your shit together and your house in order and commit if you want them back because guess what it may get worse before it gets better, you need to be prepaired to do the yards and earn your wings.

Even with 50/50 care with a court order, everytime my daughter goes home to her mums I wonder if she'll be back the next week, and what happens if she's not. I start the fight again untill she is back again and I will do this my whole life if neccessary.

As far as going to DID's meeting yes it will give you what you need a lot quicker than the forum if you are ready if not just keep with the forum until you feel you are ready.

Your a good father and you want whats best for your kids and right now the fog in your head is running over the worst case senerio's that can be imagined and as this is happening your mind is creating it's own probable reality, it is starting to feed off it's own fear. " there is nothing to fear tbut fear itself ".
Try an exercise of comming up with alternate soloutions that might work if the kids remain where they are. They are in another state you have a home gaurantied, you have a job and you have 13 weeks of school holidays a year, there are family you can rely on during these times, there are X amount of long weekends that you can drive up and see them and take them camping or such, you can request that your X pay's half the air fair and travel.
This might not be suitible but it will show you ther are alternates availible and it will show that you are not helpless.

I've used these and although I knew the X wouldn't go for it there was a chance that the court would and her lawyer had to explain this was a real posibility.

I've got off track a little but the main thing you need help with is to get them back then you need to start accepting it is in your power to do so.
You need to be patient and follow procedure as your council has already, and you need to plan and make a workable solloution that will suit the best interests of the children. Research and aproach child care, family assistance, possible time off work, schooling and expected time they will spend with their mother if she choses not to come back, how it will be arranged and so on and so forth. A Parenting Plan that can be transpired to orders if need be.

I will read and reply to everything you post but I can't promise my reply will be what you want to hear and in some cases may get up your nose but I promise to be as supportive as I can .

As always take from this what you can use to benefit you and disregard the rest.

P.S. if you feel you need to chew me out thats cool I don't mind.

Hi,

Man it is hard to have the kids you are used to seeing every day just vanish. I get real down sometimes and it is only the support of people around me and you guys that lift me up when i feel knocked on my ass so THANK YOU for bein interested.
Hope I can ask a couple of questions regarding your last message. How can I say no to her coming back to the house as we jointly own it??
How can I prove the mental abuse she has been givin me for months about the moving issues.
Also she is allowing me to phone them daily but always it is a saga -- eg ring back later .. My phone was turned off - etc .. what can I do bout this??
Do I need references and stuff in court to prove I am an involved dad?
What will happen at a hearing for interim orders?

PS .. I will not chew you out for taking interst in my prediciment.

Thanks again

As far as the house goes, right now you occupy it and have the same rights as a tenant, many fathers leave the home because they feel it's the best thing for the kids and easily sacrifice their lives for the children.
When this happens you have to fight to pay child support and possibly the mortgage as well as find soemwhere to live close by with minimal contact with the kids.

Reality soon shows there is little left to go arround and massive stress attached to it.

The Single mother however recieves money for herself from the government as well as family Tax benefit A&B, maintinance, rental assistance, phone assistance, maoving assistance, ammenities assistance. Not every case isd the same and some mums have their own income etc etc etc.
But who's responsibility is it to find accomidation if she leaves the family home ? If you allow her back in will she have you removed through police intervention or simply tell you to leave. If you manage to get your kids 50/50 aren't you just as entitled to provide them with a secure home ???.

If the home has to be sold then provits will be shared equally but if her assets are deemed greater than yours you may well retain the family home.

Point is if you intend to stay seperated or you feel this is final then protect your own interests to best advantage the children.

Much of what we go through is hear-say and is not recorded in any way but this does not mean it's not real, forget about proving so much as it is more important to get through it with any form of help you can get including with being honest with those who may be able to refer you to someone, tell your story to your doctor and explain your having problems because of it and he may suggest a councilor, if he doesn't ask about councilling. Not only will this help you but it can give you someone who may be able to provide answers to your question.

There are no orders in place so even wih telephone conversations you can't make her do anything so it's best to stop trying, in it' place write in your diary everytime this occured and why this is part of the paper trail, if she suggested a time to ring then ring at that time, write a letter to suggest a specific time to ring and take into account your children may not wish to talk on the day, it's important for you to accept this and remain upbeat and let them know your OK about it.

In my situation my daughter was made to feel bad about talking to me on the phone through varrying methods of P.A. so rather than make her feel bad or pressured I introduced to her to just tell me you love me and say goodbye if you don't want to talk. now she understands that it's OK not to talk if she is in a possition where she is uncomfortable but dad will talk for as long as she likes if she wants too. This is very hard but a positive way to disassociate a weapon from it's purpose ( P.A.S. and guilt ). sometimes it is better for our cause to follow the rules that are set and show how we are trying to adapt to what is requested but the requests have no stability and we are desperatly seeking stability from the childrens mother as can be seen with the letters we have sent and the communication we have had. This has been done to no avail or commprimise by their mother.

You need to reference and cross referance everything, you need to start building your case even if it never gets to court and you need to prioritise relevance DO NOT GET DISTRACTED BY PETTY BECKERING. Be the bigger parent by working towards what you consider best for the kids and have your reasoning clear and logical, be prepaired for comprimise but stick to your basic values.

When replying to a post I sometimes read into it whats not there, it's hard for people to right what the real problems and concerns are so I read a lot between the lines. This makes it very important that you let me know where I'm wrong or I stay on that track, it's also important for others who read in the background as they may work off my assumptions, many here have a lot of good advice to give but they may agree with what others write and therefore simply read until they have something to add, so never forget it's not just me who is taking an interest there are many who are listening and have suffered as you have and are.

In over three years of fighting I didn't make it to intrim orders or infact court. Believe it or not I just made it to a directional hearing.

So I'd like to ask other members to comment on this, the biggest thing is not to panic and use any help you can to get through this.

Well I have been so busy I have not had time to post an update for a while.
MY CHILDREN HAVE BEEN RETURNED TO ME 100% on iterim orders but it seems they are heading toward this permanantley if she does not return from interstate. She tried to stay the orders and they threw that out of court and now she has appealed the interim orders but the judge said at the mention for the appeal it is unlikley to succeed.
I will be broke but I will have my kids!!!

dadaluvsya man thats great news.

I know the preferd is to have you all in one state but thats is great.

No wonder we haven't heard from you for a while, I can't imagine what took place.

I'm stunned and so happy for you.

well done