Hello Ladies (and Gents),

I have really enjoyed reading your comments back and forth since I've had little to report. So no need to apologise for taking over the thread.

Since telling my X that she wasn't to move towns with the kids the fallout has been devistating and now utter silence. No-one is talking to me, it's a bit scary actually.

One of the latest things that has happened is my eldest daughter (who's 8) had the day off from school after I spoke with her mother (too upset to go to school aparently) the next day she went back and began destroying the friendships that she had built up with her school friends during the last 4 years!!

I believe that my X and her parents have been in the ears of these two innocent children and are poisoining their minds, both against me (apparently they don't want to see me anymore) and their friends. It's almost like if they have no friends here at home then the court will allow them to move to another town!

I have never tried to play these games with the kids (my X, and her parents, grills the kids about what we did, where we went and who we saw when they are with me) and I'm not about to start playing those games.

The events of this last week have lead me to believe that I made a mistake telling them at the beginning of their week, I should have told them the day I picked up the kids.

My X tells me that she is moving towns with or without the kids, her new partner hates this town and won't stay, so if she does stay here to keep the 50/50 arrangement she loses him. Not a hard choice if you ask me! Anyone who would give you an ultimatum like that obviously doesn't have the kids best interest at heart.

Can anyone provide me with some information on how to combat the very -ve stresses that are being placed on these innocent lives. I want to keep these kids so badly, but I don't want them to stay against their wishes and grow up hating me for it.

Their wishes ???????

I'm sorry when did the children become the parents.

So you'll let them go to grow up to think their not worth putting the extra effort in and think you abandon them, because if she works this alienation thing right this will be what they will believe.

We are parents and for one thing or another once the children hit the right age they will hate us for bring their parents, you don't go searching for it but like it or not there is a good possibility it will happen and they may not verbally express it but they sure as candy think it every now and again.

I regret one thing in my separation. When my daughters mother ask me if I wanted full custody she had the same plan in mind, to move away with her other kids and make a new family and leave our daughter behind. In disgust I said " No she needs her mum too " She moved near four hours away and we settled for me having 38%, from that point on she was constantly trying to reduce time and make excuses why my girl couldn't come down the for no reason she refused contact, Oh sorry official reason apart from fabricated was that I requested orders, for 5 months I had to fight then eventually paid for 50/50 contact.

If I had said yes it would have been much easier for both my daughter and myself. Truth is she does need her mother and her other family but I would have been flexible and not stopped contact.

Just remember your just as important as mum and it needs to be considered who can provide the best enviroment for the kids.
Go to the school see the councilor and let them know what the children are doing, try and work in there that you expect they are being heavily influenced by the mother and gran and that you fear they may be doing this to please them.

By the way it was stupid to tell anyone what your game play is especially what has an influence on staying put, you have just handed them concepts that could have secured the kids where they were and allowed them to discredit the reasoning.
The kids will now be under so much pressure because it has now turned into a conflict.

These people are not your friends and do not care about whats best for the kids concerning you, these are selfish people who are driven by their personal needs.

I was told repeatedly by the counseller I was seeing....'Someone has to be the adult', 'You can't just be friends with your children'.
At the time I thought....WHAT????
In hindsight she was very right. In the end I walked away for a while. I told the kids what I was doing and why I was doing it. I have no doubt that they know what is going on even though I haven't seen them for over twelve months.
The fact of the matter is that if your teenage kids think you are a great parent then you probably are too soft on them. They will form these opinions starting from a very young age. Once they get past thirteen they can choose where they spend their time as far as the court is concerned.
The saddest fact is that kids learn all too quickly that they can manipulate the situation post seperation.
They tell each parent what they think that parent wants to hear when the parents are in conflict. It appears that they (the kids) will tend to lean towards or favour the parent that trys the hardest to be their friend when they are young ( lets them do what they want, go where they want, have what they want etc).
As they mature those opinions shift and they tend to realise they were bought and lose a lot of respect for that parent.
They will tell you that they hate boundaries, rules etc until they themselves realise how important they are. For some that knowledge comes too late.
If neither parent plays 'Bad cop' the kids will never get it.
My kids eventually worked out that they could do as they pleased when with their mother and told me that if I didn't take them where they wanted to go and do the things that they wanted to do then they would not come and see me again. They knew that their mother would not send them if they said they didn't want to go and they knew that she would take them wherever they wanted to go because that is what she had been doing for so long.
Their mother has a rod for her back that, believe it or not, I wouldn't wish on her. Because it is my kids that will eventually suffer the most.
If I was going to do anything with my kids when I did see them I had to keep it as a surprise. If I had told them of my intentions before I saw them you can bet they would have done it with someone else before I saw them. If I ever bought them something, someone else would always buy them a better one.
When they had the hide to tell me I had to play the game or miss out on seeing them. I told them that if they didn't realise what was going and change their attitude I would see them when they grew up. That I was not going to barter for their attention.
Like I said, I haven't seen them for over twelve months.
I'll bet they are costing their mother a fortune.
Either way I would have had to pick up the pieces in a few years.
If you stick to the angle of discipline and respect, and you try and keep it real for the kids from the start. It will show in everything you do. And it will give the kids the best chance.


Hang in there

Spencer, the best thing for your kids is to give them a secure home life. If your ex is already choosing her new partner over her kids I would be concerned. The fact that her new partner has so little respect for those children that he would give her that kind of altermatum is disgraceful and is even more reason to fight for them tooth and nail.

The best thing for the children is to be with someone who has their best interests at heart. I don't know that that sounds like the mother at the moment.

I would take the children to meet with a specialised child psychologist (as we did with the little ones when we went through this). The kids will fight things themselves for a while, because what they see at the moment is you hurting thier mother ie: their mother telling them what you are doing to her, so they obviously feel a loyalty and a need to protect her now.

They do move past this, to a point where they understand the necessities and do come to terms with what has to be. In the beginning the kids wanted to live with us, then they'd hear their mother putting on the sob story of how devestated she was to lose her angels (obviously not devestated enough to care for them properly even once we started the court ball rolling). They then felt guilty about staying with us and angry with their dad because their mother was upset. Now we have them and things have settled down again, they've told me that they are very happy and glad they didn't have to live with mummy although they feel bad for her and bed themselves for not wanting to live with her.

You have to make the right decisions for your children. Your decisions need to be objective and mature. The guys are right. Someone has to be the adult now. Don't leave the decision in the hands of the kids. It's to much responsibility to lay on such young shoulders. They are then having to make a choice.

One day they will thank you for it. The chances are, this guy does not care enough about your ex to respect her children and her family. I doubt things will last. When they do fall apart, she is likely to move back with her family and at least this way the kids won't be uprooted yet again.

Once again thank you all for your comments. There is just so much information to be gleaned from this site.

I just got home (Qld) from a weekend in Victoria, it was good to get away and clear my head after the last few months. I have almost finished my week without the kids, I pick them up tomorrow and I am expecting a difficult week ahead. While I realise that my timing on telling the X wasn't exactly the best I do believe that had I left it until December (as I originally considered) that my actions would only have been done to get my outcome and certainly not in the best interest of the kids.

My choice is for her to stay here, not move away, and share the kids 50/50. Giving her so much time actually allows her to mount a case against me keeping the kids but if I am truly interested in what is best for the kids (not just me) then perhaps someone else needs to look in from the outside and make the call (in this case a judge). I am becomming more and more confident that my reasoning is sound and I will end up with my kids.

A close friend saw both the kids on Friday and her comment was that the youngest is O.K. but the oldest is struggling and I should expect some trouble getting her to understand. Both my X and her parents (and perhaps the new boyfriend as well) have had nearly a week to poison their little minds, all the time telling me not to use the kids as pawns!

I will look in to taking the kids to a psychologist this week and see what they have to say. I expect that this will cause more grief from the opposition team but I agree that it needs to be done. If the psychologist can see that any sort of damage is being done to these kids that will certainly be addressed quickly, and if that is the case then the judge should frown upon those actions from my X and her parents.

Just be careful how much faith you put in the judicial system and do not think that a decision will fall at your feet, it's hard work and plenty of blood.

If you can sort it out with out going to court do so, if you find you do have to go to court then follow the path of education it will help immensely .

Just be careful that when talking to the kids you don't try to de-program them, this could in fact push them closer to an alienator , try and find someone who can best explain how to deal with the situation, tips on discussions with kids and how long you should talk about issues and how often are important, kids have limited information spans depending on their age so it's better to make a good impression than blah blahing till they do not understand.

It's important that they know your enviroment hasn't changed this will help them adjust back, too much emphasis on the future problem will b make your enviroment uncomfortable.

I sound like a record thats probably telling you what you know but the truth is the line to becoming an alientator is a very thin one even if you do so defensively.

Best wishes and good luck this all takes time so relax often and enjoy the company of your children.

Thought I should give all and update. I managed to have the kids for a whole week up until today. First time for everything.

It took almost two days to get them to start opening up to me, I'm sure that as time passes this will get easier (I'm sure that almost everyone on this site who has been thorough it will agree). There has been many tears about the most mundane things, I'm almost certain it's just because they don't know how to verbalise their issues.

We managed to have a good week together and I thoroughly enjoyed having them at home. It has been very difficult for me to deal with the whole separation but I have seen, this week, just how hard it has been on the kids too.

My X has sought legal advice and I think that they have told her that she doesn't have much of a chance in packing up, shifting towns and taking the kids. Her whole attitude has changed and she is now talking about trying to move in two years time. She asked me if I would consider moving then, I said I didn't know what would be happening in two years time and we would have to see.

While I would like to think that this is somewhat of a victory I'm not sure. Initially I wanted her to go and leave the kids with me. Now as I have had a chance to think more about it, I realise that me wanting her to shift towns and leave me with the kids is just as selfish as her wanting to take the kids off me. My kids need a mother just as much as they need a father (this has been hard for me to accept).
I guess that I haven't had it as bad as some of you (trust me I have read some of the stories and I feel your pain) but I have come to realise that having to give up some of my wishes to make sure the kids get to have both parents involved their upbringing is in their best interest.

There is no doubt that, financially, I would be better off if she left but if I truly consider the kids best interest then spending time with both parents is what they need, besides I don't think I would cope well having them full time by myself.

I hate the fact that their mother has found another man to take my place (for her, not the kids, they will never accept him instead of me, thank God) and I struggle with trying to be both a mother and a father when I have them by myself. But I have come to the realisation that if I want what IS what is best for the kids and not what is best for me then I must give up a little of what I want.

I believe that down the track, when all of this doesn't hurt as much as it does now, and the kids have accepted the situation, they will come out the other end as fully functioning adults with genuine respect for me. If I can do that then I can hold my head high and know that I did exactly what I should have and I acted with integrity for myself and my kids sake.

I'm not sure how this will pan out and I may change my mind as things progress, perhaps next week I'll be fighting tooth and nail again to get the kids off her, who knows. But right now my kids are coping and I'm coping and perhaps even the X is coping and that's got to be the best situation for all of us.

My thanks to all who have posted on this thread, you have helped me through some dark times, please stay near, there are still stormy seas ahead and I may need more advice yet, but there have been a couple of days of not bad weather and I have enjoyed a break. I hope that others may enjoy the same.

Fills me with pride when I hear the breaking of ground as one more parent steps on the path well trodden.

We will be here perhaps in different names and different guise but we will be here.

It's been a few years now for me and I'll swear I will never feel secure again when it comes to my daughter, the blood has been let and truces formed but I'm ever vigil for the assassins knife.

Time will help immensely and you have done well to draw your line in the sand take it as a victory for your children.

It would be advisable to obtain court orders to this new truce sighting stability for all concerned but this is your choice.

Well done stay strong and enjoy.

Spencer I'm glad to hear the outcome was a great one for the kids. You're right, they do need both parents. Whilst it is always easier for us when the ex moves away, I think the adverse side of this is that the kids miss them dearly and then begin to put them on a pedestal, which is not a good place to be either.

If both parents can remain within reasonably close vacinity so that the kids are able to benefit from seeing each one regularly than it is definately a better option in most cases.

Good on you for seeing things from your childrens perspective, as hard as that can be when you just want to be able to have the freedom to finally move on from your life.

The other benefit to come from this is possibly that your ex will no longer see you as a pushover and will tread a little more carefully where something like this is concerned in the future. I would monitor things closely for a while though, if her boyfriend is hell bent on moving the real ultimatum may came and she may up stakes and run anyway. Be ready to launch onto it straight away if that does eventually happen - hopefully it won't.

Spencer, your children are lucky to have a father who cares so much about them he is able to put his own needs aside to look out for theirs.

Good luck to you and hopefully we don't hear from you again regarding any negative developments