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GRANDPARENTS

 
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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: GRANDPARENTS Reply with quote

IN THIS INSTANCE THE GRANDPARENT (MOTHER) NEEDS TO "BUTT OUT" OF HER SONS LIFE AND LET THE POOR LITTLE MUMMY'S BOY HANDLE HIS OWN AFFAIRS. 6 YEARS NOW THIS MANS MOTHER HAS HELPED HIM AVOID PAYING CHILD SUPPORT PUTTING EVERYTHING IN HER NAME-JUST THANK GOODNESS THE GOVERMENT IS FINALLY DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THESE MEN WHO LIVE LUXURIOUS LIFESTYLES ON THE EXPENSE OF THEIR CHILDREN.
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey disea

It's not only Grandparent but the whole system who is involved in this area including busineses and company's, they are also taking into consideration second families as well as considering mothers income.

I can't wait because my X is spending money like it is going out of fasion on the company that she set up to reduce the amount of maintinance that her defacto pays to nil.

The changes should expose them both as well as open up her dealings to the Tax man excetra. End benefit will be my daughter and his two children.

The follow on benefit to extended will be quite impressive so well eserved help will come so mums and dads know excactly where they stand and can plan their future.

This of course wil reduce the tax free income in certain households and increase spendable income in others.

In another way it will also improve contact that both parents have and encourage the building of relationship between parents and children.

Lets hope the new system takes off and benefits the ones it's suppose to the children.

And seeing as love buy's relationships not money it may even trangres on another level of acceptance and responsibility.

It would be a pleasant thought that parents become responsible for their children and that none of the money would be used to support the luxurious life style or habbits of either parent, but this take the realisation that child support is to support the child not a formn of income to be incorperated for the matriarc of the family.

When it come time and if I recieve maintinace my intension is too open a seperate account for the money and off set the normal costs, then the remainder will hopefully go towards further education if required, if not it will make a nice 25th birthday present.
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: http://dadsindistress.forumup.org/viewforum.php?f=8&mfor Reply with quote

Hi disea,

Thanks for your comments, and bold speaking. Yet behind this is a story worthy of speaking on the Forum as you wish.
Please correlate all you need to say to bring clarity to your important situation, as you are not alone here on the Forum.
D4E has perceived a direction of which you may find in the future to be helpful.

Children who are deprived of proper attention , emotional support , real care that costs , by either parent has injured the relationship, and placed the dollar and a lifestyle so far removed from relationships, that I see it all too often ...they end their latter years with no feelings, and /or no valued true family.

In fact they are not attached to, nor living in the real world. For arrogance and lack of real meaning in life is their end reward. And when Mummy passes on.....???
Where is the 'son'. His wealth attached to a lie , will be a certainty " Beware your sin's will find you out." A very powerful statement, and a truism.

Working somewhat in the dark on this as yet .

Take care, and share as you wish. Colin S

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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit


Last edited by disea on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Grandparents Reply with quote

Welcome Disea,

INTERFERING Grandparents may be a mild annoyance , yet this sinario, of which you , with righteous anger and frustratin are intergrally entwinned , is far from the nornal agrivation , it is shear dishonesty , if this being , and has been the case.

It is surely a cunning move to reject not only your access to funds which are due, yet robs...., steals from his very own family. Of whom he , being immature and insensitive , if domminated by his dear friend, his mother !!. I would venture to say, that her persistence in her treatment of each , including her son , comes from her own desire to control her son , and , no doubt everything , and everyone in her life.

I have no idea as to her reasons , yet her motives come from equally both power and money. The two together , cause dishonesty , and lack of concern for people who are de-valued for the power and dollar, and her dispicable arrogance.
Wink And please forgive me for speaking of her in such mind tones!

I assure you, infants can be bought...to some extent, as they do not see the villain behind the gift , where-as teenagers , even 8,9,10 year olds are not so easily fooled.......with their love being bought ! Yet they may still accept the gift , though have only ....lack of respect ,...for the person who has been unloveable, and non existant for much of life.

You have the real Treasure , yet your income stability is of great worth , as to how you are able to give them , your children a life. Your love for them overpowers.... beautifully , any unfaithful love which appears at any time. Yet , there is a need to act against your children from the feelings of the future, their rejection , by seeking legal aid , and slowly tearing down this house of dishonesty.

Please speak to those who can assist and let them know your needs, relentlesly.
And we are listening and ready to assist as we are able.

Take care of your children.
Colin S

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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit


Last edited by disea on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit


Last edited by disea on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Disea,

Unfortunatley there are parents out there who have this opinion, some are even controlled by their parents.

It seems for the major part they use a common opinion that reflex on a small section of mothers who basically use the CSA as their own personal slush fund.

Never the less there is still an obligation moral and legal to support children by both parties.

The system uses a one shoe fits all senerio with some very unballanced rules that seem to encourage conflict at the best of times.

In one hand I agree, sympathise and truely understand where you are comming from and the disapointment you must feel in the childrens father must be immense and in the other hand I understand that the current rules and system is to blame for allowing this type of thing to continue by allowing people to abuse the needs of their children whilst preventing fathers in particular of continuing their lives with a new partner and family yet effectively encouraging some women to bear more children to increase their income.

Unfortunatly it is human nature to distort it's surroundings to suit their own self absorbtion. Some rise above this others wallow in it.

he appears to be very self absorbed in himself and uses what his mother say's as an excuse to achieve what he wants. I would suggest that he has used his mother and told many lies and exagerations to the point that she probably thinks that she is protecting his interests from an enemy that is money hungry and manipulative.

As parents only get one side of the story and get their protection hackles up very quickly, they are very biased towards thei off-spring to the point of being bloody minded.

Although this does not exonerate them from their behaviour as they can see but chose to follow what is interprited rather than the truth.

Although I do not doubt your words and you must act to expose this action it's important that it does not effect the children and whatever contact they do have.

My daughter asked me the other day if we were poor.
At her mothers their spending money hand over fist, 4 brand new vehicles, many new items in the house, going away and staying at hotels, chalettes and eating at restraunts, buying junk meals as well as any edible treats availible.

I ask her " Do we live in a house ?, are you well fed ? do you have plenty of toys ? is your wardrobe full ? do you occasionaly get your treats ? "

Of course the answer was yes, she knows that I shop for clothes that are marked down, I cook different and varied meals, toy's are bought from garage sales and on special and she gets the shrapnel that I save in a container to spend on lollies and such.

My answer was " Well I don't think we are poor, we are very lucky to have what we do, even if we had lots of money not that much would change because Dad likes to make sure you eat healthy, that we share time together looking for bargins and that we have fune making stuff. "

If I had the CSA her mother should be contributing it would'nt go on restraunts and staying in a house. I'd rather go camping in a tent, an adventure, or cooking a special meal like steak.

I rang CSA and ask them about the situation. The answer was short agressive and detremental towards myself. they did send out the forms but I know well that right now I can't do anything but will put the forms in at the end of the month anyway in hope that the system will be fairer.

Balance is the important thing disea, try not to let it get under your skin, yes it's frustrating and don't give up but don't let it be an obsession, only you will suffer if it does.

Take care I know some of the things I have said can be taken as offense but were not meant that way. Please feel free to rip me or tell me I'm wrong.

I'm very familiar with how unfair it is as well as how hard it is to survive.

All the best D4E
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Grandparents Reply with quote

Hi to you D4E and welcome again as always disea,

I am through this Forum, my own research attempting to educate myself in this area the "Child Support Agency" , and I am as mad as 'ell' over the entire issue raised , once again.

How can they rightly assess the Childs, Children's situaton as to fair income for their ongoing needs, and as they grow older the increase in costs ?If the parent cannot make progress, does the child have to do a law degree in CSA POLICY ? Who is rightly listened to, with valled information?

You have just called CSA , I pressume D4E , and to be so ' well treated ' obviously not, gives unwarrented power , to the temptation to give up.....if only for a short time. Not an encouraging 'hobby' to give any confidence in returning to soon,.... for another gut renching, almost guilt ladden 'adventure'.

And all this so one can have a stable future for your child.
I know full well ,...that you will always find a way to give your child what is needed, so this is a clarification of priveous words of which I have spoken.

You say D4E
Quote:
Never the less there is still an obligation moral and legal to support children by both parties.


Is this not the Governments pollicy on the issue, and the criteria format of which they work under ??? I take it NO!! Only on the 'Shop Front ' So am I correct in assuming this is another 'weak area ' which needs further public attention . Or is it worse than that...it seems so from reading the womens plight and the men's plight and ultimately the child's/ children's plight??

It is often , that when I get a pain in the head over an issue, my brain is more ready to act , and I have found from past experience, one . two or......folk or thousands , can change an area in which those involved are , as employees , forced to go up a level to the next Manager , who is with long winded reteric, which I am renouned for , move on up to the next 'BIG BUNNY', until , the continual up and down the so called ladder of 'Command' is driven nuts! And yes I have something to lose ,..if not firmly and patiently along with unstoppable persistance and having perfected my homework .

I'll pause for a commercial humour break. A phone call come in right on 6pm, most nights. The attempt is to sell me a new phone connection......you know the speel ! "Sir, we are offering you a new mobile phone which to you is completely free , it take photo's, make cups of coffee, answes you mail, pays your bills , has a built in ash tray and comes in 2 thousand shades of pink !"
After he finishes his well learned , seemingly off the cuff , sincere , gift statement. I ask " Do you own a home?" Answer yes , "may I have your evening home number , so I can quote you on a brilliant extention to your home, of which you will wonder how it was you lived without it.??!! " There is deathly silence and the phone goes,,,,,dead , and hopefully not him!!

And to prove my point, with a phone company 'T' , WHICH AS MOST KNOW IS DIFFICULT WITH WHICH TO DEAL OFTEN, It took me 3 days to bring the Billion Dollar Company to a state of functioning...as they are people, like us, with whom they are dealing...and stating "It is Company Buisness Policy in your case.... Sir" ....is of reverse consequenses to them , for it to me,.. is....likened to kicking a bull in a tender area !!! I finally had the entire online folk, of whom I spoke softly and with no intention of going away.................and was finally assisted from a wonderful man from , would you believe it....TASMANIA , who was woken to attend to an 'insignificant person...me!'

And yes it didn't do my nerves , and wrenched gut any good.....until later.

Your advise, comments, corrections and especially my education would be extremely thankful for any part of this post, you could assist me with.

Thanks for being here, we cannot do it alone
Colin
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Col

Simply I survive there is no hurry.

I no longer smoke but I do have the occassional drink.

So there fore I am not only richer but healthier.

I also prepair all our meals at home and bake.

There is simply no hurry.

But neither do I intend to give up.
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:45 pm    Post subject: Grandparents Reply with quote

Hi D4E, Thanks for your reply. Yes I know you will not give up , you are extemely committed to all you do , and I'm not 'blowing your trumpet" , yet it is a , fact , one of your Fatherly and personal Atributes , and for that I do commend you.

Yet where to from here D4E? With C.S.A , IF YOU DON'T MIND ME ASKING , FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY , AND MY .....EDUCATION...which comes a very distant last.

Very best , Mate.
Colin

Must appolligise for my absence...a few hick-ups of my own!! Will share another time. Not finalised as yet.
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From here it gets put on the back burner, I have other things to sort out that have higher priority namely a home, once this is put into perspective as to where our options lie and further contact with the court and such.

Once this is sorted then I can give some attension to other matters, I may lose in the process as far as I may not be able to claim " X " amount of monthss or what ever, but lets face it I don't recieve it now and we survive.

It's more important that my daughter adjusts along the way and my efforts best suit her situation.

ergo go to court or accept whats lost is lost.

Court would be simply myself becoming pig headed against someone who refuses to accept her personal committment. Then roll the dice and take your chances.

No rush and if it turns out I do recieve CSA it will be benificial to both of us, I wil be able to stop subsidising her through my pension and she will be able to do a few extra activities.

Sometimes we all have to look from a different point of orrigin to accept we are just human. And being human we all have faults.

I'm not proffesing forgivness as I feel this is over rated but more to the point acceptance.

All the best, I seem to of hijacked the thread from disea which wasn't my intension.

Disea I think your doing a great job against something I hate " Alienation " not only of yourself but your children. I wish you the best of luck just remember it's easier to take down a brick wall piece by piece and a lot less painful.
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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit


Last edited by disea on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And thats the biggest frustration, Not everyone is as ethical as yourself.

I can't say it's good parenting that creates this but something just seems to flow through and you end up being cursed thinking all people behave like you do, not even the biggest let down will let you relenquish the belief in other and the good of all human kind that come into contact with you.

I know personally even when I get kicked in the guts I have a problem with getting even in a nasty way, it all tends to be by the book.

It's not fair, it's not right but you will work through it.

I often look for positives to negate the negative but the balance is lacking.
My daughter being given a pet bird by someone who does not want it is a positive but when it is off set against trying to keep our home you sorta have to squint a lot to say " Oh yeah thats a positive ".
This is after all just another start to your life and it's future, what is will be and no matter how much you want humans to be people some will never learn.

Best of luck I'm sure soon things will seem a lot brighter.

Like I say " No need to forgive them just put up with them for the kids sake "
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Grandparents Reply with quote

Hi disea,

Pleased to hear you are still hanging in there with the challenges we know you have , and as for the mother, I suggest forgetting her .....and chip away at the son.
Honesty will eventually prevail , and you are doing what comes naturally to you.

Keep the C.S.A. informed by letter as to how you are 'not' coping so well, and leave it for a time and contact them personally. vikingprincess has some great ideas , you may have found her Web Site, if not send her a private email via this Web Site , and as\k for directions, as I have not the authority to do so. She knows many women going through the similiar issue , and D4E is well aware of your situation , more than most. I speak to you in encouragement, to keep on ,and I have never trusted car salesmen, real estate agents or builders, and so not to give the impression I am biggeted, I was a builder, and honesty gave me many a return customer, no advertising just word of mouth from one client to another. Don't give up, keep on patiently at it.
Colin S
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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Mummys Boy Reply with quote

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Last edited by disea on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Colin Spratt



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 680
Location: coffs harbour

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: http://dadsindistress.forumup.org/viewforum.php?f=8&mfor Reply with quote

Grandparents,

Hi disea
You have indeed braved the sharing of the children with the mother and son, just hope they are mature enough between the two to be worthy of having the children. Though it ought to be a good experience for the children, and they will tell you of interesting things they have experienced. So as they come home, just wait for them to share, and they will, as soon as they're ready, kids can't keep much to themselves when Mum is a good listener.

You only need a few words of encouragement to help them to open up and speak.
Look forward to your positive news , or ........as the reality of the 'Adams Family'!

Colin
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disea



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Hi Colin Reply with quote

edit....eventhough circumstances still the same....and stand by my original post ;(


Last edited by disea on Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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OmanaNZ



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 7
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: what rights do grandparents have? Reply with quote

Hi there,

This is my first post and hopefully one of many.

What visitation/contact rights does Grandparents have if they live in another country?
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey OmanaNZ,

It's a bit of a tricky question that has much base in legal affirmation at the time contact orders are sought.

It basically means that parents and grandparents rights are secondary to the child's, you will hear the terminology " In the child's best interests ".

If the child is being deprived of their best interests then you may need adjudication of that right.

In real world terms this basically means grandparents unless main caregivers are way down the line, contact can occur when the child is with each parent through the will of that parent and unless you approach having an order set in court this ends up as your basic situation.

This of course is just a basic answer because there are so many varied situations and complexities such as distance and objection.

Hope this helps a little.

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OmanaNZ



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 7
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi D4E,

I am asking on behalf of my Brother who is a "Dad in distress" and my parents.

My parents live in NZ with my brother living in queensland. My parents try and go to australia as much as they can to see their grandson.

My parents are due to fly out tomorrow, the crunch is my brother is out of a job at present therefore can't pay maintenance.

The Ex knows my parents are going over and has said because my brother hasn't paid maintenance he can only have his son on tues & wed. He normally has him Sun,mon,tues one week then mon,tues,wed the other week.

Can she just do that, restrict visitation until he pays whats owing? It seems very unfair for my parents who haven't seen their grandson for 2 years .
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D4E



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 2045
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhh OmanaNZ,

This one of the many ploy's used to squeeze fathers by using the children as a weapon, in this case blackmail.

Can she do this.

As you will start to realize there are a lot of grays in these areas.
One of the things we have to do to view things legally is to take out the emotions and morals, simply because what many of this distinctive parent does is neither emotionally or morally right but may be legally acceptable.

Now are there orders or parenting plans in place ?

If there are no orders in place then she can do what she wants until there are. To do achieve orders you have to follow the process of mediation to see if it can be sorted here or if it can't, off to court you go.

If there are orders and she is stopping contact then this is a breach of orders, now breaches can in fact be acceptable for the right reasons.
No this reason is not acceptable if your brother is in close enough proximity.

The trouble is if there are orders then it takes time to apply for a breach and by then your parents will have left.

So the simple legal answer is " Yes ".

As this seems to be about money perhaps a cash payment can be suggested to help her through. Don't forget this is basic legal blackmail because she has minimal morals or obligation to the rights of her children, they are the carrot.

I personally detest this sort of behavior and think it is no different than any other form of blackmail but to this the family law ids a little more lenient and will need an access of proof, to which they may still consider leniency. Bottom line pay if he can or put up with reduced time if he can't, when she sees this will not gain her money she may change her mind or it may make her worse.

I know this doesn't help but ask anything you want and I'll try and answer.

All Best D4E.

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