Hi, I’m new here although I have visited this site before some time ago and have found it again..thank God! A bit about my story (any comments welcome). I have an 11 yr old daughter to a 45 yr old mother (I’m 38) who has 3 other children (all boys) and who are all now grown up. When I was living in the same state I had mixed success with contact and on occasion this went well. When she was young I took her to court for access which ended up with a verbal agreement I worked out with her therapist (I should have followed through but it seemed reasonable at the time and did work well for a while). I would have my daughter every second weekend and some of the school holidays. I have since married to a very supportive woman (my ex and I were never in a serious relationship when our daughter was born) and we have now moved state (3 yrs now). My daughter was coming up every holiday at great expense although the mother was limiting these visits and generally deciding for how long and when (we were glorified baby sitters). But my daughter loved these visits and reveled in being a frequent flyer. My daughter has a good relationship with both of us but over the past year this has worsened and I have heard from my daughter this may be due to me telling ‘lies’ according to her mum. What lies I don’t know but she has questioned several times why she doesn’t spend more time with us. When I explain to her why or that she can if she chooses she would always state that mum cuts her off and won’t allow conversations on this point ( I gather my supposed lies start here). I have always remained fair when talking about her mum because I know she is fiercely loyal to her and she has even said she hates talking about it and all the different stories we both tell. She doesn’t know what to believe…poor kid!

Without boring you with too many details my ex sees a therapist and has done for over 10 years, is extremely possessive and has told me to my face I am nothing more than a sperm donor. If she had her way she would get rid of me for good but the child support money is just too good (she is on Centrelink) and even recently bought a house!!! I have no doubt she believes she owns the child. She thinks nothing of moving her from school at will and recently relocated to the boonies in her hometown state I’m sure in an effort to dispel my potential of relocating back home. Of course she told me through the child after the event. I miss my daughter incredibly and worry about her all the time and her future. Her attitude is now changing and she is becoming distant, if not rude at times. It depresses me enormously and even affects my day to day life. I feel like she is slowly slipping away through the lies being told about me etc. Some days it’s just unbearable. Then I feel so dreadful for my wife who has to see this way. I read all the stories on here and just want to give up. I know I shouldn’t but I still want to. My daughter is getting to the age now where she is becoming more cheeky and spiteful and that also hurts. I feel for her and I feel so bad for despising her mother so much. I feel bad for wanting to give up. She holds my mail after reading it and she doesn’t like it (mostly) and puts my calls on speaker so I have given up on that to. Nothing is private or personal. I always hold my tongue and even that is becoming so hard after so many years. I can’t believe how she could want her own daughter to grow up without a father (like she did) and repeat her life’s failings which she had even discussed with me many years ago (and now probably wish she never did). But I know it’s reality I just don’t want to accept it. She is a mess in many ways herself, very low self esteem, always wears sunglasses as if hiding from the world, sometimes dresses poorly, lacks motivation and no other relationships that I know of. Her daughter is now her life and yes I am a perceived threat. All I am asking for is half of the school holidays (meaning 6 nights, and 3 weeks at Christmas not whatever she dictates, weekend visits with plenty of notice when I’m in her state where all my family are still and communication about OUR child’s education and medical issues). I realize I live in another state so I’m not asking the world! And this child has travelled as an unaccompanied minor for 3 yrs now!

Recently I wrote her a gentle letter saying I would like to work together on a parenting plan for the good of our daughter as she gets older (and because I think it is unsuitable as it is) and to reestablish our relationship as parents and reopen the communication channels as this is what our daughter has asked for. Of course there has been no response. So I’m thinking of going down the telephone mediation line next after speaking to the Family Relationships people. If anyone has any words of wisdom or anything feel free to let me know. Cheers. Sorry about the babble, I could say more, lots more..LOL and thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and reply.

Hi distantdad.

You are already doing the best you can in trying to establish some sort of contact plan, no doubt your daughter is going through her own changes right now and there will be some tantrums at her mothers which may result in mum using the situation to her advantage and focusing negative feeling onto you. No doubt your daughter will be exploding with many emotions that have confused her and unfortunately is only receiving one side of the story. You may have mistakingly played a part but it's hard to judge at the time and it would not have been malicious.

There is little to lose in many ways and if you wait too long orders may not be forth coming because of the age of your daughter.
I'd approach mediation as soon as possible, it's going to be hard but this will help where in the long run with luck.

Best of luck and keep trying. D4E

distantdad, if you have your daughters email address I would send communication to her that way. If she has a mobile, send her a text message. My partner has the same issues with his 15 year old daughter. They have raging hormones and are very quick to lash out. If her mother is stifling your communication and filling her head with rot, this is only going to make things worse.

We found the best things was to just keep sending communications, phone calls, letters, emails, and texts. Even if we never got a response, we'd always do this at least weekly so that she knew she was loved.

Over time, she is coming around again. Don't stoop to your ex's level. State the truth (without bagging her mother, this can be delicate at times) and correct when a lie has been told, again, without bagging her mother ie: daughter says, 'you never want to see me, why have you never bothered to see me'. You say, 'I have, many times and give examples'. Leave it up to your daughter to determine that her mother is not telling her the truth.

We won custody of my partners youngest children. Their mother told them that the only reason daddy won was because he paid the judge. That mummy had her angels stolen from her. She didn't tell them that she lost them due to serious neglect and failure to correct this after many warnings.

We just told the kids that, 'when 2 parents have different opinions on something and can't agree, a judge will listen to both sides and make a decision on what is the best thing for the kids. Noone can pay him to make a decision. His job is to be unbiaised. It takes a long time to become a judge, and the judge has to be very very honest and very wise'.

Hi, thanx for your quick replies and great advice! I'm doing the best I can and I am following both of your advice. It's good to know there are people who do understand my situation and I'm not alone. Any advice - comments on my next step if my ex doesn't respond to my request re a parenting plan and opening up communication? Cheers again and thanks.

Once you have received the neccessary certificate from Relationships Australia that expresses mediation has not been met you apply to the court for final orders.

This is the legal process that is followed.

Even this is no guarantee of outcomes there are many factors that are considered and much information that needs collating.

One of the web sites that may be of assistance when moving into legal aspects of things is the Family Law Web Guide.

One thing that is important is to try and remove emotions when dealing with her mother and not fall into any traps that may be concealed.

Hope this help All best D4E

One thing that shocked me when going for final orders was that the first court hearing was not for final orders. Ours got quite messy in that social workers were brought in to write family reports and the whole 9 yards. We had to go through 3 interim hearings before getting to a final hearing at which stage my partners ex pulled the pin.

This shocked me I guess because I had it in my mind that it would be one hearing and over and done with. A lot of times people will just sign over to get it over and done with and can regret the decision later. Stand strong on the important things, always keeping in mind the best interests of your child. Treat the orders you are going for as the orders that you will be bound to until that child turns 18, because it's not a process you are going to want to repeat. Think of things like who will pay for travel, asking for contact time with your child that MUST be facilitated by her mother at a set time, with the option of being able to contact your child at any other time, without being put on speakerphone (this is a no no to the courts), that your daughter be allowed unrestricted contact with you at any time she needs to speak with you, the fact you do not have her on weekends, I don't think you would be seen as unreasonable to ask for contact with your daughter for all of the school holidays with the exception maybe of the Xmas break where you could request maybe 4 weeks and the mother could get 2 weeks (think about this with your work though and whether there will be someone home to be with her, coming from the same situation as a child myself, I can remember being quite resentful of the fact my father took us to stay with him and then went to work).

Request an email address for your daughter, even if you have to set up a hotmail address for her that her mother does not have details for (most kids are on email now), and maybe you could even buy her a mobile phone that only allows incoming calls with the possibility of topping up whenever you have a few extra dollars. In your court orders, you could also request webcam which is the next best thing to not being able to see your daughter face to face.

You are well within your rights to ask that you be consulted in all instances that your daughter is required to seek specialist medical help, you can even push that your daughter undergo counselling, that you are free to interact with the school for your daughters report cards, newsletters etc. That you both maintain a say in where your daughter goes to school, that you can attend any special events whether through school or extra-curricular activities etc. Anything is possible if it is in the best interests of your daughter. It is important for your daughter to know you have taken an interest in all facets of her life, even if you can't be with her all the time. Maintaining that lifeline so to speak helps you to continue to know your daughter so that the times you do get together you are not strangers.

The other thing I noticed was that my partners ex when we started down the court process, she all of a sudden became quite reasonable and we thought we may have turned a corner with her so my partner nearly gave in on a few things that would allow us a sense of peace when things became nasty again ie: not giving into her demands for our home telephone number (we changed the number twice because she would ring at all hours screaming down the phone). I still had his ex's venom clear in my mind so really pushed for him to be strong on those points.

It was extremely lucky we did, because she has become extremely nasty again now that the court case is over and all of those areas we nearly gave in on in the Court Order have now become our saviour. We are extremely glad we didn't give up.

The good thing once interim proceding start though (even though getting to final hearing is a pain in the proverbial), is that you will have some clear cut contact time and your ex will be treading a very very fine line if she breaks those orders, the next hearing after that could potentially be her downfall.

ALWAYS, keep your backyard squeeky clean. I can't emphasise this enough if you are going down the track to court. Everything you say and do with your ex you will have to think to yourself, 'how will this be viewed by the judge'.

If your daughter does not want to see you, it might be worth hitting the track with the family report so that they can delve a bit deeper into why and record whether it is through the mothers coersion or not.

Having gone through the courts with my partner for custody of his children/my stepchildren, I can tell you, the road is tough, it's draining, it's time consuming and it's expensive, but I would do it all again for the outcome we now have. We will never again be held to ransome the way we were before for the sake of a few precious hours with the kids.

Good luck with it.

yes kae you are right.it can be an extremely long and arduous road through the family court i went to around 15 hearings before it was all over and while it can make you a much stronger person inside it does leave you very drained.
i am currently in dispute with families sa over what happened to me i have a copy of the child protection act and even though i have not read it completely it is patently obvious that they acted in plain breach of this act on several occasions [no wonder the families sa worker who i had my first interview with a couple of weeks ago was so nervous and eager to please ].the police also broke the mandatory reporting section of this act on at least 2 occasions.i am hoping by my actions to shake them up a bit and if i can make a difference to one childs life as i was able to do with my own it will be worthwhile.i would advise any parent who is being fobbed off by these people to get a copy of this act [if there is one in your state]and make sure they are meeting their obligations under the law .you may also be able to get a copy of their charter and make sure they are sticking to it.
another thing i found out was that the youth court [at least in sa]can override federal courts eg the family court.this may be a better and less expensive option for parents that are up against it. dont expect your lawyer to tell you this as for the most part they are only interested in making as much money as they can.i wish i had known this when i was fighting my own battle.this may however not be applicable in all states but it may be worth checking out.
another thing that is extremely useful if you are concerned about your childs welfare is to keep a diary of everything that happens even if it seems trivial at the time.i kept one for 2 years and it proved most useful.
thank you kae for your reply to my story A HAPPY ENDING its always nice to see kids doing well as your stepchildren seem to be your husband is very lucky to have some one as supportive as you .

Thanks Dave.

I did the same, I obtained copies of the departments (DOCS) policies along with researching and gaining a better understanding of the legal system. Unfortunately this did not help us at all where DOCS were concerned. I even wrote to the minister for child safety, to no avail. The information did help us in other avenues though, such as planning our fight through the courts. We had a much better understanding that the courts would in fact view what the kids were going through as serious neglect and our resolve became stronger, because we finally felt we stood a chance and that all the money we were going to lose as a result was not going to be in vain.

The police had even made a report to DOCS under the mandatory reporting system and none of the information or reports were ever investigated. They did tell me though they wait until there is an absolute motsa of information before acting. It's a shame that some of those kids don't survive until there is a mountain of reports for DOCS to act on and if they do a lot are left emotionally scarred. It truly is a bad state of affairs when the department you entrust with the safety of children is as toothless as they are.

All the best to you and your daughter Dave. You have given her an exceptional chance in life, and she is certainly a remarkable woman, to have come from such a sad start, to have reached out for the stars and achieved so much, when she has probably had more of an excuse than any of us to underachieve. She's amazing and you should be so proud of yourself as well for giving her that wonderful foundation.

Write the book. I'd love to read the story

kae
i wonder if you have heard of events which occurred in adelaide recently where children who were living in absolute squalour were removed from their mothers care and taken to hospital and into state care.it is a really horrible story.there were 3 different cases,in one as i understand it 21 kids were living in one house.in at least 2 of these cases families sa were notified of what was happening and concerned neighbours even rang the police to notify them as to what was going on yet nothing was ever done.you can see now what was the result of this.
exactly the same thing happened to me with both families sa and the police,they were informed and even shown first hand what was going on [my daughter being abused neglected made to go hungry and being left alone all the time not attending school etc yet they did nothing about it.
this dept needs a real shake up,not just in an administrative sense but also a REAL culture change.a couple of weeks ago in an interview with one of their workers i was told that they have had a huge increase in their workload and only a small increase in their funding and so they cant do much. conversely however that must also mean that when my case was happening [10 years ago now] they must have had a much smaller workload and therefore must have been in a better position to do something to help my daughter yet they still did nothing.in short whatever happens they never feel that they are accountable for their actions,and will always blame some one else.
my daughter was also emotionly scarred despite all my efforts and despite stacey achieving well academicaly it was only in the last couple of years that i was able to instill in her any sense of self esteem or self worth.no surprise really after what she went through. families sa or docs are NOT toothless tigers, they have the power they just choose in so many cases not to exercise it and this very much to the detriment of the children they are supposed to be protecting.
anyway i hope you like the pic i sent you
cheers dave

Dave, yes I have. Both my partner and I were sitting down talking about this over the weekend. This one and a number of other cases over the past year or so.

We are in QLD, but our DOCS department was just as bad. Actually they refused to intervene on the basis that...they acknowledge there was neglect, but they refused to investigate on the basis and I quote, 'that there was still one parent willing and able to care for the children' unquote. Yes we were more than willing and able to care for the children, but we could not get through to them that a court battle does not simply resolve itself over night. These things are often a long drawn out process and in the meantime it is the children who are suffering at the hands of the neglectful parent. We had no 'legal' right to simply remove the children ourselves (court orders were in place). It's so hard for a parent to be told noone else will intervene and that legally you have no rights to protect your children in the best way you know how ie: removing them to your own care.

In the end, we took that very road, at the same time filing applications for changs in custody. We refused to return the children to their mother at the end of a contact visit. I don't recommend as a solution for anyone, simply a track we took in the end. Once we notified our solicitor that we would be doing this regardless he put the wheels in motion to make it possible legally.

Dave, you are right, they do have the legal recourse to act, but choose not to. We had the same guff from them about not enough funding and far to many cases to fight. I think if they took a much tougher stance from the outset they would not have to continuously return to the hard cases, thus freeing up some time for others. To be told yes, your stepkids are in a bad position, but hey, there's worse out there so we have to look after those first was a real slap in the face. How many kids slip through the cracks.

I'll tell you something else that was said by one of their senior people whilst on loudspeaker to myself and partner...'we do not act on cases where underage sex is taking place unless the person in the sexual relationship with the underage person is a family member'. I kid you not, this ignorant woman actually said that to us about my partners 13 year old child. I was horrified and sent those quotes in a letter to our wonderful minster for child safety Anna Bligh and got a lovely warm and fuzzy letter back from her secretary, but nothing else. I guess Ms Bligh was too busy with the media to respond.

Sorry, if I am sounding a little emotional about this department, but I've learnt first hand what an ineffective bunch they are. I'm still very angry with them for not acting to protect these kids.

The public report these things (and in our case even the police made reports), you expect that those reports will be acted on so do nothing more. Then you hear that nothing has been done and it leaves you feeling truly gutted. Where else do you turn as a member of the general public? My reports were not anonymous, I used my name, address and gave great detail, they had so many other departments they could ring for verification that what I was saying was true ie: education department, police department, even just driving around to look at the house would speak volumes. I know for a fact that even photo's were sent off to them. Still no action.

I must have made over 50 phone calls to them myself over the period of 2 years. We requested the records under the privacy act and there were a number of people who had made reports to them (of course no names were given to us, but there were things reported that even we didn't know about).

My stepkids and your daughter Dave were among the lucky ones. We had the determination to fight and refused to give in, some are not so fortunate.

We took a giant step backwards financially, emotionally and we are still crawling back from that. But we were talking to friends last night who reminded us how far things have come for these kids and we just looked at each other and said, 'now we know it was all worthwhile'. In 20 years time, our memory of fighting for the kids will no doubt pale and be replaced with new memories of how well they have done as a result.

The relationship we have with these kids now, would never have been possible the way things were previously.

My advice to anyone else going through it is to never give up. Even at the worst possible time, never give up. For us there was a catalyst and it was that catalyst that eventually resulted in a very quick resolution to our situation.

When that change comes, it's damned quick and leaves you dizzy with relief. I honestly felt like ours would drag on until the kids left home and then some. We still have our issues with 'gods gift to mothers', but her moments of misery are now far and few between and we now have the tools in place to settle her down quickly.